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-   -   The Primal Scream (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/39610-primal-scream.html)

Bad Zebra Wed Nov 14, 2007 05:07pm
The Primal Scream
 
Boys pre-season game last night. B1 completes a nice dunk..there's one team A body on the floor from incidental contact...B1 lands, bows up his chest as opponent is coming off the floor and lets out a primal scream that lasted about 3 seconds. I whack him with a T for unsportsmanlike/taunting. I thought he held the high note a little longer than he needed to and was trying to intimidate team A.

Checked with my partners for their opinion at the half and they said they would have just warned him or ignored it because team B was losing by about 12 points.

My question: What does everyone use as a standard of tolerance for the "primal scream"? Seems like I've been hearing it more the last couple seasons after a hard dunk.

Dan_ref Wed Nov 14, 2007 05:10pm
Everybody has their own trigger on these things.

That said, I certainly would not have been 'reffing the scoreboard' in the first half and especally not on the play you described. Not the best advice you could have gotten IMO.

Sounds like a good T.

rockyroad Wed Nov 14, 2007 05:22pm
I actually (cough, cough, choke, gag) agree with Dan.:D There are some things that might be over-looked in the closing seconds of a blow-out game, but in the first half??? And certainly not something which falls under taunting - that kind of crap will only lead to more problems down the road.

Dan_ref Wed Nov 14, 2007 05:33pm
Is it too late for me to change my vote?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Nov 14, 2007 05:39pm
I don't care when in the game this bozo from Team B does a bow and primal scream after a dunk, he is getting WHACKED!!

MTD, Sr.

Mark Dexter Wed Nov 14, 2007 05:42pm
I don't care when it happens or what the score is - if taunting occurs, I T it up every time.

Adam Wed Nov 14, 2007 05:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra
Checked with my partners for their opinion at the half and they said they would have just warned him or ignored it because team B was losing by about 12 points.
Sounds classically pusillanimous.

TimTaylor Wed Nov 14, 2007 06:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I don't care when in the game this bozo from Team B does a bow and primal scream after a dunk, he is getting WHACKED!!
MTD, Sr.
My sentiments exactly!

mick Wed Nov 14, 2007 07:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
I don't care when in the game this bozo from Team B does a bow and primal scream after a dunk, he is getting WHACKED!!

MTD, Sr.
Would you *whack* a one-second long primal scream, if the dunker made no eye contact with any opponent but only turned and jogged back to defend?

Jurassic Referee Wed Nov 14, 2007 08:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
Would you *whack* a one-second long primal scream, if the dunker made no eye contact with any opponent but only turned and jogged back to defend?
Mick, what is the object of these primal screams in your learned opinion, no matter how long they are?

My own opinion is that it's a borrowed practice from the NBA, and its only done for one of two reasons, or maybe both reasons---> (1) drawing attention to themselves <i>a la</i> chest beating, etc., or (2) taunting the other team.

Nevadaref Wed Nov 14, 2007 08:46pm
For all of those who have responded so far that this is a technical foul: Do you also believe that screaming at an opponent going in for a layup is a T?

Jurassic Referee Wed Nov 14, 2007 08:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
For all of those who have responded so far that this is a technical foul: Do you also believe that screaming at an opponent going in for a layup is a T?
Whatinthehell has one got to do with the other?:confused:

Screaming at opponent going in for a layup is done with the intent of trying to break the concentration of the shooter. There's no specific rule against doing so. You tell me though...what is the <b>intent</b> of a player making a primal scream? Hint.....pull out your 2003-04 rule book and read POE 1A.

mick Wed Nov 14, 2007 09:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Whatinthehell has one got to do with the other?:confused:


Screaming at opponent going in for a layup is done with the intent of trying to break the concentration of the shooter. There's no specific rule against doing so. You tell me though...what is the intent of a player making a primal scream? Hint.....pull out your 2003-04 rule book and read POE 1A.

2003-2004 POE 1
A. Taunting/Self-Promotion: ....While many of these actions are not specifically illegal by rule, extreme behaviors could and should be considered taunting and baiting of the opponents....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Mick, what is the object of these primal screams in your learned opinion, no matter how long they are?

My own opinion is that it's a borrowed practice from the NBA, and its only done for one of two reasons, or maybe both reasons---> (1) drawing attention to themselves a la chest beating, etc., or (2) taunting the other team.
JR,
The Dunker may have missed 10 shots in a row and gave the *primal scream* out of relief of finally putting the ball in the hole.

I do not think all screams must be automatic technical fouls.

Jurassic Referee Wed Nov 14, 2007 09:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
[INDENT]
2003-2004 POE 1
A. Taunting/Self-Promotion: Players are increasingly directing their <font color = red>celebratory</font> actions towards opponents, which should be interpreted as taunting and baiting, and penalized accordingly. Further the committee is concerned about players <font color = red>playing to the crowd", attempting to increase attention and praise for their own individual accomplishments rather than toward the game itself and team achievements.</font> While many of these actions are not specifically illegal by rule, extreme behavior could and should be considered taunting and baiting of the opponents.


JR,
The Dunker may have missed 10 shots in a row and gave the *primal scream* out of relief of finally putting the ball in the hole.

I do not think all screams must be automatic technical fouls.
Yup, I agree with you. It is always a judgment call imo. And it is only automatic in <b>some</b> cases. But if I judge that the player only screamed to draw attention to himself, play to the crowd or taunt the other team, then I'm gonna whack him. And from the description in the original post, it sounds like that's exactly what the player did.

Note that I put in the rest of the FED rationale that was included in the language of that POE.

Dan_ref Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick

JR,
The Dunker may have missed 10 shots in a row and gave the *primal scream* out of relief of finally putting the ball in the hole.

I do not think all screams must be automatic technical fouls.
Ya know what Mick? I think most of us - even good old Bhuch - can recognize the difference between a taunting scream and an outburst of relief. The OP obviously did not mean to say the screamer was overjoyed by his ability to *finally* put one in the hole.


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