College Ruling Please
 

A1 puts a shot up which goes in. As the ball is passing through the net, B3 fouls A2. As the official is reporting the foul, the coach for team B disagrees with the call and receives a direct technical foul for his actions. After the free throws for the technical foul, how is play resumed? Yes we all know POI, but which team gets ball. No bonus rule is in affect

You make the call

Team A gets the ball. The throw-in spot will depend on whether you rule B3's foul to be during a live ball or a dead ball. If the ball was still within the basket, then it's a live ball personal foul. Team A will shoot 2 free throws for Coach B's technical and then get the ball at the spot nearest B3's foul.

If the ball had cleared the net, then it's a dead ball and the foul should be called only if the contact was intentional or flagrant. In that case, it's an intentional technical foul (for men; for women, it's just a regular T, I think). Team A would shoot the free throws for Coach B's technical and then get the ball at midcourt.

Team A would get the ball for the foul. You would shoot the T FTs and put the ball back in by POI. Then shoot FTs for bonus if necessary or just take the ball out of bounds at the closest spot of the foul.

Peace

I agree with your ruling, but I think you have some stuff mixed up. You first shoot the T's for the head coach, which you got correct. If you deem that foul that occurred was intentional technical or flagrant technical, you shoot two free throws and the ball is inbounded on either side of the division line to the offended team. If flagrant, the player is ejected. If we are in the bonus we would resume' play off the ft's in one and one or double bonus. if not in the bonus we would have team A take the ball out of bounds for a designated throw in.

I must be missing something. You were only asking about a direct technical foul. I am not sure if you are aware, but that is the actual classification of a technical foul in NCAA Rules. That means that you can only go to the POI on that type of situation. A direct technical does not involve an ejection (all by itself). And if you wanted to know what happens with a flagrant or intentional foul, why did you not just ask that in your scenario?

What do you do if the lights went off the moment the ball was in the air and you did not see who threw a punch and who came off the bench. Do you then still have the ability to look at the monitor? :rolleyes:

Peace

If this was a technical foul, then it was an Intentional Technical foul (in NCAAM). Then, the throw-in is at the division line, not the spot nearest the foul.

OTOH, your ruling would have been correct for NCAAW. I'm sure that makes you happy. ;)

NCAA 10.4.1 which covers bench technicals says that "disrespectfuly addressing an official" is in fact a direct tech as JRut says with two free throws and POI...which in this case would be bonus free throws or nearest spot throw in we are not in bonus...NCAA women is also POI according to 10.4.1....

One of us (probably me) is confused. I was talking about B3's foul on A2 being an intentional T. The throw in for this is at the division line, not the spot nearest the foul (in NCAAM).

I agree that the T on the coach is a direct T.

Ahhh I see what you are saying. Are you saying that since the ball was dead when the ball passed through the net that you have an intentional T on A2? The situation doesn't say, but I assumed that this was a common foul, but I guess it depends on what he means by "as the ball is passing through the net"...if the ball was through, then I hope the contact causing the foul was execessive, otherwise he should have passed on it altogether...since he didn't elaborate, I assumed it was just a common foul that occurred just before the ball passed through (live ball)...

I only thought of this as a common foul based on the description. And he did not say the ball was dead. If the ball was dead, that still does not change my answer. That being said the direct T is still a POI application and if you decide to call another T for that foul by B3 is accused of committing, then you still would shoot the Direct T FTs first and then do whatever you had to do to put the ball back in play. If you call a T that requires the ball to be put back in play at the division line, that does not trump that a Direct T in Men's basketball is still a POI foul (live or dead ball).

Peace

Agree with you, at the risk of misinterpreting what Bob was thinking (Bob correct me if i am wrong), i think he was thinking that the foul by A2 was dead ball...which assuming it was excessive (non-flagrant) contact it would be an intentional T, not direct...then with the direct on the coach, you have a false multiple which you would administer in the order of occurence...shoot the intentional T first, then shoot the direct on the coach, then go POI which in this case would be B's ball at division line for the initial intentional T by A2...but again I thought the foul by A2 was common and none of this matters...did I get that right?

Not that it matters with two Ts, but wouldn't you shoot the direct T on the coach first and then resume with POI, which is the free throws for the intentional T?

Why would you do this rather than order of occcurence? You are right, in effect you end up in the same place...

While we are on the subject of NCAA technical fouls, does anyone have an easy way of remembering which T's are shot by the "offended player" and which ones anyone can shoot? Being new to college with a whopping 3 games under my belt, it is a lot to try to memorize...thanks!

My understanding is you either do POI or "order of occurance," not both. In effect, doing it your way would be a hybrid of POI and OOC.

8-2 provides some pretty good guidance -- and it's not that hard to remember. ;)

But i am referring to POI only as the method of putting the ball back in play whereas order of occurence would be the order in which you would administer the penalties..aren't they two seperate issues? Isn't the POI on the direct T (which came second) ball at division line since that was the result of the intentional T (which came first)? My understanding on POI was that it is whatever it is at the time when the foul occurs...in this case POI at the time of the direct T was you shooting the intentional T and giving B the ball at division line...unless I am totally missing this...

You are not missing anything.
 

You are correct.

Peace

Maybe where i'm getting hung up is I thought with a direct T, you administer it right away and then go to POI, which is the free throws or throwin.

With a personal foul followed by a direct T, you shoot the T first and then the personal foul free throws.

Again, I realize this is nit picking since it really doesn't matter with the T which you shoot first.

But does it matter as to who is allowed to attempt the FT's on the offended team? This gets back to my question a few posts ago...If you look in the foul/penalty chart at the back of the NCAA rules/interps, some T's the penalty is "Two free throws" and some are "Two free throws to any member of the offended team"...maybe I am reading too much in to this, but is this meant to infer that on a direct T, since it doesn't say "...to any member of the offended team", that the offended player must attempt? Further to that, who the heck is the "offended player" when a coach curses the official?

In NCAA ball, the same shooter must shoot both FTs (8-2-3). And all Ts are still two shoots. You are thinking the NBA.

Peace

But can any player of the offended team shoot the free throws (both of a pair)? This is where this table at the back of the rules/interps throws me off, they make it sound like with certain types of T's, a certain player must attempt....could just be some bad editing...I have assumed that any player on the offended team could shoot them, just wanted to be sure...

I was hoping no one would read that post. As soon as I posted it, I realized my error (that I was thinking NBA). I deleted it, but you're just to quick on the draw, Jeff. ;)

In both NCAA and NF rules, any player can shoot FTs on a T. The difference with the NCAA, the player which is chosen by the captain or the head coach must attempt both FTs (all Ts are two shoots). So if you have a dead ball T, that involves contact, according to 8-2-3 anyone can attempt those FTs. So if you call an Intentional Technical, anyone can shoot those FTs.

BTW guys, all of these descriptions are in the back of the NCAA Book on page 149-153.

Peace

Almost as quick as Bhuck Elics.

Great thanks, so I have that right...do you see what I mean though on pages 149-153, the table there? Under Penalty, why for (Men) Direct Technical is the penalty just "Two free throws", whereas for (Men) Intentional Technical, the penalty is "Two free throws to any member of the offended team"? Why the distinction, makes it seem as if the administration of the penalty is different?

I thought that went without saying.

I think they want it to be made clear that this is not a regular foul where only the fouled player shoots the FT. If you do not make that distinction, then someone will require A2 to shoot the FTs which is not consistent with the rule.

Remember the same applies in the NF level outside of the fact that the selected shooter does not have to shoot both FTs. You can bring in a sub (NF Rules) to shoot in each T FTs. For example if you have 6 T FTs, you can sub in 6 different players to shoot each FT.

Peace

Thanks JRut...I understood the hs rule, it was just the wording in that darn table that had me second guessing the NCAA procedure...luckily haven't had a T yet in a college game, but good to know I would have gotten it right:)

I think it's due to the fact that only on intentional Ts is there a player who's directly fouled. Therefore, the committee added the "by any player" to this penalty rather than subtracted it from the penalty for direct Ts.

DING DING DING I think we have a winner...that makes sense....not sure why that bothered me, but it did!