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-   -   All alone, I am I am (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/39530-all-alone-i-am-i-am.html)

Splute Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:03am

All alone, I am I am
 
I experienced my first 1-person game(s) Saturday. I had one floor (JV) and my partner had the Varsity floor. Fortunately it was only a boys scrimmage. It was a good experience. I felt it was a crash course in officiating, because I was responsible for everything. I had to watch On ball, off ball, subs, clock, proper reporting, etc. It really made me see my strengths and weaknesses in a very short time. Not to mention it will lessen my fear of working alone in regular season situations. I wouldnt want to do this again anytime soon, but I do recommend everyone experience it at least once. :) One team had apparently been coached to take charges... everytime the dribble drove to the basket they would scream and fall. After the third time of not getting a call, one player asked what he was doing wrong.... I said nothing, thats why there is no call. Had my first bleeder; lip and was wiping it on his jersey.... I appreciate all the help from this site.

PYRef Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:14pm

At least you got your excersie for the day!:D

JugglingReferee Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splute
I experienced my first 1-person game(s) Saturday. I had one floor (JV) and my partner had the Varsity floor. Fortunately it was only a boys scrimmage. It was a good experience. I felt it was a crash course in officiating, because I was responsible for everything. I had to watch On ball, off ball, subs, clock, proper reporting, etc. It really made me see my strengths and weaknesses in a very short time. Not to mention it will lessen my fear of working alone in regular season situations. I wouldnt want to do this again anytime soon, but I do recommend everyone experience it at least once. :) One team had apparently been coached to take charges... everytime the dribble drove to the basket they would scream and fall. After the third time of not getting a call, one player asked what he was doing wrong.... I said nothing, thats why there is no call. Had my first bleeder; lip and was wiping it on his jersey.... I appreciate all the help from this site.

Cool story. You'll have another in your career, I'm sure.

Curious how you were watching foul reporting while you were doing foul reporting? :confused: :D

Splute Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PYRef
At least you got your excersie for the day!:D

Jes, I feeeeeeellllll it today:eek:

Splute Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Cool story. You'll have another in your career, I'm sure.

Curious how you were watching foul reporting while you were doing foul reporting? :confused: :D

You know, role playing, pretending I was my partner, watching me, watching my partner, watch me... :D

rainmaker Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splute
You know, role playing, pretending I was my partner, watching me, watching my partner, watch me... :D

I'll get Padgett to send you some meds...:D

Splute Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
I'll get Padgett to send you some meds...:D

Hee hee, so I have already progressed to meds.... and the season hasnt even started:)
I will add that it was nice that the fans and (for the most part) coaches, were very calm during all the games. That surprised me. Guess they felt sorry for me:D

Mark Padgett Sun Nov 11, 2007 01:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
I'll get Padgett to send you some meds...:D

Why? That sounds perfectly normal to me. :p

MeRef Sun Nov 11, 2007 03:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splute
I experienced my first 1-person game(s) Saturday. I had one floor (JV) and my partner had the Varsity floor. Fortunately it was only a boys scrimmage. It was a good experience. I felt it was a crash course in officiating, because I was responsible for everything. I had to watch On ball, off ball, subs, clock, proper reporting, etc. It really made me see my strengths and weaknesses in a very short time. Not to mention it will lessen my fear of working alone in regular season situations. I wouldnt want to do this again anytime soon, but I do recommend everyone experience it at least once. :) One team had apparently been coached to take charges... everytime the dribble drove to the basket they would scream and fall. After the third time of not getting a call, one player asked what he was doing wrong.... I said nothing, thats why there is no call. Had my first bleeder; lip and was wiping it on his jersey.... I appreciate all the help from this site.

My question is why you would even step on the court without a partner? My guess is you picked up more bad habits than good ones, such as poor location (to see the whole court), watching the ball the whole time, etc. If my partner is not there, there is no game.

gordon30307 Sun Nov 11, 2007 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeRef
My question is why you would even step on the court without a partner? My guess is you picked up more bad habits than good ones, such as poor location (to see the whole court), watching the ball the whole time, etc. If my partner is not there, there is no game.

You do what you gotta do. Let see you have two teams, parents, table workers, gym open, paying for custodians, paying for security, concession stand open etc. etc. and you don't have a partner you won't do the game. You won't be working much if you do that. You do the game. You'll be paid extra, they can't yell at you, (if they do say hey I'm by myself I didn't see it)if the ball goes out of bounds ask the players who it went off of. They normally fess up. If they don't go to the arrow. It's a piece of cake (most of the time).:D

rainmaker Sun Nov 11, 2007 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeRef
My question is why you would even step on the court without a partner? My guess is you picked up more bad habits than good ones, such as poor location (to see the whole court), watching the ball the whole time, etc. If my partner is not there, there is no game.

I don't know any assignors that will work with someone on this basis. If they know I won't work without a partner, I won't get games at all. period. Partners don't show. It happens. Ya just gotta do the best you can, and coaches, fans, players have to accept it.

I'm guessing you either don't ref at all or haven't reffed very long.

Mark Padgett Sun Nov 11, 2007 04:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeRef
If my partner is not there, there is no game.

MeRef, that won't work around here. If my partner is not there, the only option is Me Ref. :D

Jurassic Referee Sun Nov 11, 2007 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
I don't know any assignors that will work with someone on this basis. If they know I won't work without a partner, I won't get games at all. period. Partners don't show. It happens. Ya just gotta do the best you can, and coaches, fans, players have to accept it.

Agree. As Gordon said, you do what you gotta do.

rainmaker Sun Nov 11, 2007 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Agree. As Gordon said, you do what you gotta do.

Whew. I finally got one right. I've done a lot of games alone, and it's a challenge, but that's because it's the best thing to do, not because it's wrong.

JRutledge Sun Nov 11, 2007 04:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeRef
My question is why you would even step on the court without a partner? My guess is you picked up more bad habits than good ones, such as poor location (to see the whole court), watching the ball the whole time, etc. If my partner is not there, there is no game.

There might not be a game, but there are likely consequences to that decision. And that position is not a very realistic or experienced point of view. Now I would want to delay as much as possible, but the reality is if you are assigned a game, you work no matter who shows up.

Peace

26 Year Gap Sun Nov 11, 2007 05:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeRef
My question is why you would even step on the court without a partner? My guess is you picked up more bad habits than good ones, such as poor location (to see the whole court), watching the ball the whole time, etc. If my partner is not there, there is no game.

Welcome back JMO/OldSchool/KSRef. :rolleyes:

grunewar Sun Nov 11, 2007 05:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
There might not be a game, but there are likely consequences to that decision. And that position is not a very realistic or experienced point of view. Now I would want to delay as much as possible, but the reality is if you are assigned a game, you work no matter who shows up.

Peace

On the few times I have worked alone (MS or wrec) I call the coaches together, before the game explain the situation, tell em I will do my best, obviously won't see everything (especially 3 seconds, off ball fouls, baseline out of bounds) etc.

Most are sympathetic and are thankful they have someone to call the game and it's not one of them or a parent from the stands. :)

bob jenkins Sun Nov 11, 2007 05:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar
On the few times I have worked alone (MS or wrec) I call the coaches together, before the game explain the situation, tell em I will do my best, obviously won't see everything (especially 3 seconds, off ball fouls, baseline out of bounds) etc.

Most are sympathetic and are thankful they have someone to call the game and it's not one of them or a parent from the stands. :)

I would not tell them up front to expect problems (I know -- that's not what you said exactly, but that's how they might interpret it).

Just work the game as best as you can.

26 Year Gap Sun Nov 11, 2007 06:01pm

Oftentimes, saying less is more and players tend to be more honest on OOB calls on the end lines. They know the situation. If it happens in the regular season, collect both game fees. Unless the varsity guys help you out.

Splute Sun Nov 11, 2007 07:56pm

As Gordon and others have said, you do what you have to do. In fact I have been told that my Wednesday Sub V games, I will probably be alone because my assignor is having trouble feeling all the games. Thus this was very helpful practice for the real game coming. Hopefully I will have a partner, but if I dont, there will be a game and I will give them my best for that night. I want the kids to play.

Nevadaref Sun Nov 11, 2007 08:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splute
One team had apparently been coached to take charges... everytime the dribble drove to the basket they would scream and fall. After the third time of not getting a call, one player asked what he was doing wrong....

:(
You should reflect upon this POE.

2004-05 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

4. Specific unsporting acts. The committee is concerned about the following specific unsporting acts. Coaches, players and officials must pay particular attention to these areas:

B. 'Flopping.' The defensive player or screener acting as though he or she has been charged by an opponent, when in fact he or she has not been, definitely has an impact on the game. It is detrimental to the best interests of basketball. The "actor" wants to create the false impression that he or she has been fouled in the charging/guarding situation, or while he or she is screening when in either case there is no contact or incidental contact. The "actor" falls to the court as though he or she were knocked down by the force of the contact. Those actions are designed to have a foul charged to the opponent – a foul not deserved. The "flop" also incites spectators. The rules are in place to deal with such activity and must be enforced. A technical foul is charged to the "actor" in all cases. Coaches can have a positive impact by appropriately dealing with players who fake being fouled. It is not a part of the game. Officials must penalize the act.

Mark Padgett Sun Nov 11, 2007 08:44pm

Whenever a player flops and then complains that he didn't get the call, I tell him, "the Oscars are in February". :p

26 Year Gap Sun Nov 11, 2007 08:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
Whenever a player flops and then complains that he didn't get the call, I tell him, "the Oscars are in February". :p

And if it happens in February, you say NEXT February. Right?

inigo montoya Sun Nov 11, 2007 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeRef
My question is why you would even step on the court without a partner? My guess is you picked up more bad habits than good ones, such as poor location (to see the whole court), watching the ball the whole time, etc. If my partner is not there, there is no game.

In some (most?) areas, contracts for games are worked out collectively between the school board and the officials organization - refusing to a game because your partner doesn't show may be a violation of said contract in some locales. Just something everybody ought to be aware of.

Nevadaref Sun Nov 11, 2007 09:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by inigo montoya
In some (most?) areas, contracts for games are worked out collectively between the school board and the officials organization - refusing to a game because your partner doesn't show may be a violation of said contract in some locales. Just something everybody ought to be aware of.

And some official associations have it specified in the contract that solo reffing is not allowed. Unless there are at least two officials present the game cannot be played. This is done for insurance reasons. We have that in my HS soccer group. The state office does allow us to work non-varsity games with only one ref, if both teams agree to play.

JugglingReferee Sun Nov 11, 2007 09:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
And some official associations have it specified in the contract that solo reffing is not allowed. Unless there are at least two officials present the game cannot be played. This is done for insurance reasons. We have that in my HS soccer group. The state office does allow us to work non-varsity games with only one ref, if both teams agree to play.

Well said, NV. A lot of coaches/fans forget this fact, or don't even know it is something on concern. Officials could put themselves in tough spots if they work the game.

Splute Sun Nov 11, 2007 09:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
:(
You should reflect upon this POE.

2004-05 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

4. Specific unsporting acts. The committee is concerned about the following specific unsporting acts. Coaches, players and officials must pay particular attention to these areas:

B. 'Flopping.' The defensive player or screener acting as though he or she has been charged by an opponent, when in fact he or she has not been, definitely has an impact on the game. It is detrimental to the best interests of basketball. The "actor" wants to create the false impression that he or she has been fouled in the charging/guarding situation, or while he or she is screening when in either case there is no contact or incidental contact. The "actor" falls to the court as though he or she were knocked down by the force of the contact. Those actions are designed to have a foul charged to the opponent – a foul not deserved. The "flop" also incites spectators. The rules are in place to deal with such activity and must be enforced. A technical foul is charged to the "actor" in all cases. Coaches can have a positive impact by appropriately dealing with players who fake being fouled. It is not a part of the game. Officials must penalize the act.

I only have last years books and this years. But this is good to know. I do know it is in the rules, however, my chapter "recommended" we not call the Tech for flopping. I do agree this behavior incites others, including parents who believe their child was hit; i witnessed it. Perhaps I should say something directly to the player and coach? Or if I give a Tech, it would certainly stop, I would just have a coach screaming that I blew the call and it wasnt a flop. It seems to me if the players are coached to do this, then they do not understand why they do not get the call, they get frustrated and begin to play rough. Perhaps a warning for the first flop and a tech for subsquent flops? Should this be discussed in pregame talk with coaches and then inforeced?

Nevadaref Sun Nov 11, 2007 09:35pm

I have to give a thumbs down to that recommendation by your local association. Why do they feel that they know better than the NFHS committee?
That said, if you are looking for something between calling nothing and immediately calling a T, you could call the first instance a blocking foul. That works for some people.

Personally, I think that we should just enforce the rules. That will clean up the game.

Splute Sun Nov 11, 2007 09:54pm

I will reconfirm with my association that I understand what they are trying to do in this situation and mention your POE from 2004-05. Perhaps I misunderstood how they want us to address it. I will give the block some thought, although it really wasnt. Neither player seemed affected on the play, other than the acting and the player having to scramble off the floor, looking at his coach with his hands in the air..... (will juulie get upset if I say he screamed like a girl? :) )
Thanks.

Nevadaref Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:11pm

Just to be clear I'm not saying that a block is the correct call. It certainly isn't in cases of no contact. However, it is a call that some people use in this situation and is an idea that I thought to share with you.

Mark Padgett Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
And if it happens in February, you say NEXT February. Right?

Actually, I say something like "next week" or "last week". I try not to work games on Oscar night. :p

chartrusepengui Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:00am

We are told we cannot start a game with less than 2 officials. If an official cannot finish a game for some reason - his/her partner can finish alone though. If reported we do a game alone we have been told there will be consequences up to and including losing card.

I don't know if this has ever really come up though. However - I'm not willing to take the chance. I will, however, look around for another registered official or help give names for them to call.

Rich Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui
We are told we cannot start a game with less than 2 officials. If an official cannot finish a game for some reason - his/her partner can finish alone though. If reported we do a game alone we have been told there will be consequences up to and including losing card.

I don't know if this has ever really come up though. However - I'm not willing to take the chance. I will, however, look around for another registered official or help give names for them to call.

You are correct. There are minimum numbers for all sports the WIAA covers:

The ones I work:

Basketball (all levels) - 2
Baseball (all levels) - 2
Football - 4 varsity, 3 subvarsity

Starting a game with less than the minimum licensed officials here will get everyone in trouble.

tomegun Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:00am

How do you guys officiate a game by yourself? I have my method, but I would like to hear what others do - where you position yourself, how you administer the ball out of bounds, etc.

BTW, one poster said what their association must do like it was an absolute. Thankfully, others chimed in with their local policies. It always makes me wonder when someone posts a local rule/method like it is the beginning and the end. The bottom line is you do what you are allowed to do and what is best for the situation. But if the contract and local policies allow the game to be played with one official, we play.

chartrusepengui Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:13am

didn't mean it was an absolute - just an absolute where I officiate. I wasn't trying to say that is the way it should be all over - just sharing what rules I must abide by. I agree that you do what you are allowed to do - but disagree that only one official is what is best for the situation.
I don't have the opportunity to do a game myself - and that's just fine with me. It must be very difficult - depending on the level. However - if we were allowed, and basically had to do games with a single official, I'm sure I would find a way to do it the best way I could.

Adam Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:25am

I think it's interesting that in some jurisdictions, starting with 1 official can possibly cost you your card while in others, refusing to work a game with 1 can lead to serious consequences. I can't imagine refusing to work a game because my partner didn't show or is late.

I've only done a few games solo, but I worked basically the C position with some extra movement to accommodate for ball position.

chartrusepengui Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:30am

I know what you mean - when I first read the post about doing game alone - my first reaction was "are you nuts?" but then realizing that there are many different adaptations adopted by different states, different requirements, regulations etc. But it definately got my attention! :-)

BLydic Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun
How do you guys officiate a game by yourself? I have my method, but I would like to hear what others do - where you position yourself, how you administer the ball out of bounds, etc.

BTW, one poster said what their association must do like it was an absolute. Thankfully, others chimed in with their local policies. It always makes me wonder when someone posts a local rule/method like it is the beginning and the end. The bottom line is you do what you are allowed to do and what is best for the situation. But if the contract and local policies allow the game to be played with one official, we play.

A more experienced official once told me that if I ever worked alone, work from foul line to foul line tableside. The couple of times I've had to work by myself, it seemed like a hybrid of the center position with a little working of the arc like the trail in 2-person was most comfortable and I did tend to stay tableside. Throwins were typically administered by a bounce pass from approximately where I felt I needed to be, but I always went to the end line to administer free-throws.

FrankHtown Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:30pm

I work top of the key to top of the key, usually opposite the table. I come towards the middle of the court if the ball swings tableside, and after a shot to try to pick up rebounding fouls. All throw-ins except after a made basket are sideline, free throw line extended. Administer free throws from trail. Have the teams/coaches call OOB on their sideline if I can't tell. If any question, we go to the arrow. The only time I will usually go deeper if it's a fast break, to try to protect the shooter.

The best thing about working 1 person is...you always know what the call is :)

Adam Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:45pm

I forgot to add. The biggest key when deciding whether and how to work solo is to ask youself, "WWBD."

For those of you who have been living under a rock, it means "What Would Bhuck Do?" Ol' Bhuck Elics is a legend in these parts.

rainmaker Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I forgot to add. The biggest key when deciding whether and how to work solo is to ask youself, "WWBD."

For those of you who have been living under a rock, it means "What Would Bhuck Do?" Ol' Bhuck Elics is a legend in these parts.

Oh, yea, bigger than that Diebler guy for sure.

WWBD is definitely a philosophy to live by in every area of life!

Adam Mon Nov 12, 2007 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Oh, yea, bigger than that Diebler guy for sure.

WWBD is definitely a philosophy to live by in every area of life!

I know I struggle to do this consistently. It's really such a tall order.

rainmaker Mon Nov 12, 2007 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I know I struggle to do this consistently. It's really such a tall order.

Well, yea. If he wasn't BIGGER than life, he wouldn't be someone to look up to!

tomegun Mon Nov 12, 2007 04:15pm

I agree with what has been said. I stay opposite table and work high. If possible, I try to get as close to the center of the court as I can. If a play occurs and I have to freeze where I'm at, oh well.

26 Year Gap Mon Nov 12, 2007 06:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Oh, yea, bigger than that Diebler guy for sure.

WWBD is definitely a philosophy to live by in every area of life!

I know the squirrels in these parts have that philosophy.

Mark Padgett Mon Nov 12, 2007 06:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I forgot to add. The biggest key when deciding whether and how to work solo is to ask youself, "WWBD."

For those of you who have been living under a rock, it means "What Would Bhuck Do?" Ol' Bhuck Elics is a legend in these parts.

Is this him?

http://www.cinecultist.com/archives/wwbd.jpg

rainmaker Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Snaqs? Dan? Scrappy? ALmost anyone? This ought to be good!

Adam Tue Nov 13, 2007 09:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker
Snaqs? Dan? Scrappy? ALmost anyone? This ought to be good!

I can't work under this kind of pressure. I must consult my WWBD manual. I'll get back to you.


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