running out of bounds, screen
 

this goes to 9-3-3 C. I think it is a violation but in this case it is A going out of bounds instead of B. A-2 sets screen near end line for A-1 and A-1 uses screen and goes out of bounds. official says rules violation.

Is that right, if not then would A be ok going out of bounds along with B following?

Had this a few years ago in a tournament final. A-1 catches a pass when back IB and nails a 3. Haha - ya right. I killed the play before the swoosh and rang him up.

Yes, calling the violation is the right thing to do here. It is not ok for either A or B to go out of bounds intentionally. It is a violation in both situations

it also says as soon as A-1 steps out of bounds a violation is called. If there is a delay then it would be a violation for sure. I'm just not positive if you call it right away. I was leaning to yes it is a violation but now I can think of times when I ran out of bounds using a screen so I think it might be legal

ok I didn't see your two posts.

So there are times when you can run out of bounds but in this case because A-1 in using the screen has to go out of bounds he is getting an advantage so a violation..

In Fed's it is not legal for you to leave the court unauthorizedly.. I think:NCAA you can as long as you are not the first to touch the ball once you return to the court.

Around a screen???? I certainly hope you're wrong.

Fed, you can go out of bounds when your momentum carries you, and you must come back in asap, and directly. You can't go oob intentionally to gain an advantage.

You were right a few years ago. Now it's an immediate violation, not a technical foul.

Yup. Do you think they changed it because they wanted more officials to call it?

That's the reason they gave.

Legal.

9-4.1: A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then
becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court
has committed a violation.

Case book play 9.3.3SitB says that he's right for FED.Were you referring to NCAA rules?

Because he's also correct about the NCAA rule as posted by Dexter.

I knew that what he said about the Fed was correct. I'm surprised it's legal to step oob around a screen in NCAA. Or am I mis interpreting?

The step itself is legal. What's illegal is to be the first (they mean "next") person to touch the ball after returning inbounds.

Interesting. So why don't we see this more often? Use a quick give, step out to get rid of the defense, and then go! Seems like a great play if legal?

errrr....why is it a good play to have 20% of your team OOB? Did you miss the part of the rule that says this player cannnot be the first to touch when he comes back in?

NCAA
9-4-1: A player who steps OOB under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has comitted a violation.

10-3-9: Deceptively leaving the playing court for an unauthorized reason and returning at a more advantageous position is a Technical foul.

Hey, I'll ask the questions here!

Maybe I'm not understanding what's legal and what's illegal. Let me try a caseplay, maybe that'll clarify what I mean. Which will help clarify the rule.

A1 dribbling up the sideline in backcourt (I know, stupid, but we're not talking D1 here!) B1 has good tight defensive position alongside. B2 and B3 set a screen directly infront of A1 just beyond the division line. A1 sees the play set up, passes to A2 who is just crossing the division line between the tops of the keys. Now A1 steps oob around the screen, and behind the screen (FC) steps back inbounds. A2 still has the ball. Now A1 is back inbounds, and A2 has the ball. If A2 passed to A1, would A1 be the first to touch after coming back in? A2 still had "possession" when A1 established herself inbounds, so wouldn't A2 be the "first to touch"? If you practiced this, and pulled it off, seems to me you'd be gumming up three defenders at midcourt and clearing A1 for a pretty good cut to the basket.

But perhaps there's something I don't understand.

In your play, it would be violation in NCAA. Since A2 had the ball when A1 went OOB, as soon as A1 caught the pass from A2, A1 would be "the first to touch" after coming back inbounds. If A2 happened to pass it to A3 while A1 is coming back inbounds, then A3 passes it to A1, that would be legal.

The "usual" play where this happens is the screen along the baseline that frees up the 3-point shooter. A1 might be guarded in the right corner while A2 holds the ball at the top of the key. A's teammates set the screen on A1's defender, A1 runs OOB along the baseline to the other corner, A2 hits them with pass and A1 hits the 3 pointer.

Okay, so theoretically, in Fed there's no way to pull this off legally, but in NCAA, if you could time the passes carefully, you might. I'm guessing it's more trouble than it's worth?

If A1 has passed out of the trap why would A2 pass the ball back to that sideline? He would be smarter to pass the ball to the other side or better into the lane for a layup.

You don't beat a press by keeping the ball where the defense is. You beat it by getting the ball and offensive players where the defense aint.

As M says, this type of thing is mostly seen on the endline as the ball is swung to the weak side.

It wouldn't go where the defense is. It would go to that sideline where the trap (three players, remember) is now behind the play.

But I'm obviously wrong. I mean, I started this thought with the wonderment that no one does this, so clearly it's not useful.

Now you know why I'm a (low-level) ref, and not a coach (at any level).

Don't be too hard on yourself; I've never called this, and I've only seen it called once, so it's not all that common. But now you hopefully understand the violation a little better, so you can watch for it when some Bobby-Knight-wannabe trys to slip this past you, thinking you're just a (low-level) ref.

If A1 was still out of bounds when A3 caught the pass, then A3 passes to A1, wouldn't that be illegal. The rule says the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has comitted a violation.

Situation would be A1 on right wing passs to a2 at top of key, then delays a second, goes around the post screen oob at baseline. While out of bounds, a2 passes to a3 at left wing. A1 then gets back inbounds on block on left side and receives pass from a3. Vioation, or legal?

Sure, if A3 has the ball while A1 is OOB, then A3 passes it to A1 after A1 comes back inbounds - violation.

I just haven't seen it called all that often, so either it doesn't happen, or it isn't high on many officials' list of things to call.