Cell phones at the table
 

Any of you having trouble with people talking or texting with their cell phones while trying to keep the book or run the clock? I had a home scorekeeper texting his girlfriend. (I know because he's one of my son's good friends.) After I gave visitors HC a full TO, during the 45 seconds he looked up from his phone like he had no idea what was going on and had to ask me what was called, who called it, etc. Before the 2nd game I was going to tell him to lose the phone but his dad came and did the book for him

Had this problem at the varsity level last year with the scoreboard operator. She was actually talking on the phone when things started going downhill. I forget the specifics, but the clock failed to start once the ball went inbounds. When myself and another official went to speak with the woman, she did not even pay attention. My partner ended up grabbing the phone from her and told her to listen to what we were saying. My partner then gave the phone to the AD and told him not to let her have it until the game unless the situation was an emergency and, in that case, we would need a new operator.

I'm quite sure I wouldn't go as far as to physically grab the phone. As soon as I realized that she wasn't even trying to multi-task, I'd have her replaced. Skip all the talk to the AD. (Can you believe it's me saying "too much talking!?!?")

Lost opportunity to teach the kid responsibility. Dad bailing the kid out. Tsk.

Either that, or the kid was filling in for the dad who had been assigned the job, but was being lazy.

If someone is going to sell phones at the table during one of my games, I want a commission.

Sorry - I had my lame hat on. :o

This is a huge pet peeve of mine. If mine is not turned off during a game, I'll let it ring and go to voice mail.

One college I worked at had a student scorekeeper who would talk on her phone during the game. I think it was one of the reasons she eventually got asked to stop doing games partly through the season. :D

I haven't had problems with this in a basketball game (yet). But at a volleyball tourney I was working at this year the scorekeeper was watching the match, and texting at the same time. She didn't seem to miss anything. I can't even dial without looking; I have no idea how kids can text without looking. :eek:

Junker and I were doing a JV double header one night, and two varsity girls were working the book and enjoyed their cell phone time. If I remember correctly, he was going to have them replaced for the 2nd game but that was taken care of by the fact that the varsity boys were doing the book for that game since it was a boys JV game.

Why would you have it turned on at the table? If it rings in my game you are either going to turn it off, or we will be finding a replacement.

Really? Good luck with that.

I won't even notice unless he answers it. Are you really paying that much attention to the table that you'd know whose cell phone was ringing.

Why not just tell table personnel <b>before</b> the game starts that cell phones, text messaging, etc, are not to be used. If one of 'em doesn't like it, tell home management to find a replacement.

Why wait for problems to happen?

Of course, you're right, but sometimes even after one says something, it happens anyway. As I"m sure you know.

I have had games with a partner, who has been on his cell phone at halftime while he should have been participating in a review of the first half and what should be done in the 2nd. He also had his cell phone on in class and was directed to leave the room because he was having a conversation while the class was taking place. Some people just do not 'get it', and sadly, they never will.

New a guy once got kicked out of officer candidate school (he was going to be an F-16 pilot) for talking on his cell phone during the last week.

Some people have no self-discipline.

Try to address it before the game starts if at all possible. If it happens during the game ask them to turn it off and get it out of sight or have them replaced. Nice memory Adam, I don't recall that one. I do recall almost having a pastor removed from the table for acting like a fan during a varsity game. I had to have the AD explain that he couldn't complain at the table. Maybe that explains my bad karma at times.:p

Didn't even think of that - it's a possibility.

Still, the kid shouldn't be on his cell. Where did common sense go?

It was at Lincoln. Girls game was against Roosevelt and boys was against Hoover, kind of an odd double header.
You'd called a Lincoln girl for a foul when she was laying down in the paint and rolled over tripping the girl with the ball. When you approached the girls at the table about their cell phones, they snapped back, "Well, it's not a foul when the player's on the floor." Typical teenager non sequitur.

I'm sure them telling me what a foul was went over well. :D I remember it now. They were going for sure between games. Good thing someone else came to run it. This will be my first season without significant (by that I mean a large number) JV games (I have 3 to help out some AD's). I don't think I'll miss them.

dblref:

Do you normally remove team statisticans (note that in my OP, I clearly said someone else was the official scorer) for having cell phones turned on? IMNSHO, that seems to be the mark of an OOO. :confused:

In that particular gym, you'd have to have rabbit ears to know whose cell phone was ringing since the gym is so small that the table is 8 feet off the ground on an upper level and right up against fan seating.

A good thing you don't do our city softball tournament, since I keep my cell on in the press box because I get scores called in from 3 other fields so I can keep the scores/brackets updated. and even though there are no other games going on at the same time as the final, I keep my phone on anyways. :p

The proper mechanic is to stand in the reporting area, blow the whistle, place your right hand near the side of your head with your thumb next to your ear and your pinky finger extended towards your mouth, and then say very loudly, "HELLO, scorekeeper, can you hear me now? I need to report a foul by Blue #21 for holding. Thank you." :D

Stat-Man I know this isn't addressed to me, but I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. I don't see in your OP where you clearly say that someone else was the official scorer. You call the person a "student score-keeper" which could be the official scorer, or the visiting stat person, or whatever. I'm just wondering ...

I don't think of this as having rabbit ears or being an OOO. If you are sitting at the table, and it doesn't matter if you are the clock operator, score keeper, stat person, whatever, and your phone is ringing, it is distracting. A couple of years ago, I had a young man (visiting team book) removed from the table for using his cell phone. I had already told him that it was a distraction and he needed to turn it off. About 2 minutes after this conversation, we were shooting f/t's and it was fairly quiet. Just as the shooter was about to take the 2nd shot, the cell phone rang again, and everybody just stopped and looked at the table. I asked the AD to remove the guy and the AD agreed. There is no reason to have the phone turned on at the table. If your calls are that important, then you don't need to be on the table. Look at your last sentence...."even though there are no other games going on at the same times as the final, I keep my phone anyways." Why?

I give up.... what's an OOO?:confused:

I know huh... I was thinking "overly officious official".
Yes, no, maybe so??

Overly Officious Oaf.

Just one more TLA.

Three Letter Acronym. :D

It wasn't a question, but thanks. If it was a question, it would be phrased like this:

By the way, does anyone know what "BTW" means?

IMS, I don't recall.

I know... my response was in case anyone asked what TLA is for.... just as they asked for OOO.

I also thought you were making a comment about society's overuse of TLAs. :)

WTF are you talking about?

Exactly.

<font size ="1">Hey...wait a minute...</font size>

IMO it's no BFD so why don't we all just CTFD (that would be a FLA).

Just think... someone that has an iPhone at the table. Texting, e-mailing, talking, listening to music, surfing the internet.

You laugh now... but it's coming. ;)

Hey, I know another FLA...

Just wait until they download the rule book and try to correct you on the floor.

Nah, we don't need them. Coaches already know the rules and they always help us when we need it! :D

Why is FLA a TLA? :eek:

Rain-Maker: Thanks, you do have a point.

At this particular school, they use students as the home book (for the most part). That's why I referred to the official scorer as a student. I was trying to convey that someone other than me was doing the home book. Perhaps I could have been clearer in this regard.

###

Back to the original discussion, I won't disagree that the official game crew of the official scorer, timer, and even the shot clock operator, should give their undivided attention to the game (meaning no yapping on cell phones). Anyone else (visiting scorer, sports info. directors (SIDs), statisticians, media at an adjacent "press row") is not in an official role and as long as they aren't editorializing official's calls or creating an unignorable distraction, I don't think it's a big deal. At one of the schools in this particular league, the sports info guy comes and does computer stats for his team and he also serves as the league info director. So, he talks calls all night form the other schools with their scores while he's inputting the game stats (without missing a beat). I don't remember being distracted by his phone ringing, but perhaps he has his on vibrate. :D

I just think that an official telling him he has to leave the table for taking phone calls, when they are brief and don't seem to distract anyone is making more of a scene than the SID doing his job. But I guess in dblref's judgement, anyone using a cell phone or having a ringing one is subject to being asked to leave.

I guess we agree to disagree here.

I think that what dbl was saying was that for a scorer to have his or her own cell phone ringing would be a distraction. I don't think I'd ask someone to leave just for forgetting to turn the thing off, but I'd definitely make them turn it off. I think, especially for a student but even for a lot of adults, it would be hard to ignore.

I'll tell my own cell phone during a game story. About three years ago, I went into a classics tournament and before my own games I was watching another guy working. He talked on the cell phone for about half of the game as he was running up and down, when he was at the table. He did hold the thing away from his head when he reported, but he never put it clear down. It wasn't the same person the whole time, sometimes he was dialing or checking his phone book.

Then, a year ago, a friend of mine asked if I'd help him with a tournament he was assigning refs for. I always work for him every year, but that year he had a new job and he couldn't camp at the gym as he normally did, just to keep an eye on things and help out when he was needed. I owed him a huge number of favors so I gladly volunteerd to do it. I knew all the folks that were working and knew there would be no problems. HA!

First morning, I get there about 5 minutes before game time, no refs. Hmmm... Well, I was a little worried, because I'd left my then 8 (7?) year old at home alone and sick on the couch. The gym was only 5 minutes from home, and I figured I'd just check in and then go right back. I called home to be sure Mason was okay, and then looked around a little. Still no refs. I called my friend, the assignor. He said there was no one to call, and I'd have to fill in. I put on my shirt, got my whistle in place and started praying.

Meantime, I had to figure a way out of there. Can you see where this is headed? I spent the entire first half of the game on my cell phone, and then when the battery got too low, on another lady's phone. (yea, I know, not a good phone with only 15 minutes on the battery!). I had to laugh at myself later, to be doing the very thing I was so critical of in someone else.

Anyway, one guy who was assigned to that first game showed up late, but the other guy never did show. This one who did show was so bad that my friend begged me to stay for the first two games. I had to call and call to find a girlfriend to go sit with my son until I was finished. That was quite a day.

Cute story, rainmaker.

At the site where i did pro games during the summer, they also have a high school and college league with games prior to the pros on many of the game days. since the gym is a converted church building, locker room space is very scarce, so the officials put their bags under the scorer's table.

As a result, it's quite common to hear beeping, ringing, and (depending on how the bag is packed), vibrating against the bleacher the bag is sitting on.

Would be curious to see an official's reaction if they inquired about the cell phone, only to be told it was either theirs or one of thier partner's phones making the noise. :D

Juulie - you should have called me. Oh wait - if the gym was only 5 minutes from your house, it must be on the east side. Never mind. ;)

Personally, no matter what level I'm working, as soon as I leave the car, the phone is off. I'm getting my head on the game or games ahead of me. Just a bit of a ritual for me to get ready to go on the floor.

I've once had a scorekeeper on the phone during a game. I called a foul, went to the reporting area, and just gave her "the look" while I waited there. She sheepishly put away the phone, and we didn't see it for the rest of the game.

I make it clear in my pre-game no matter what level ball that there will be no use of cell phone what so ever from the tabel crew. First time I see it, their out! Had it happen twice thus far this season.

I did a game last night, guess what?

Men's small college exhbition, part of the goal is to train the table officials. Before the game, I recognize two of the three table officials so I chat mostly with the third guy who is going to be doing the shot clock. First question I ask. Have you done this before? Answer: "I know how to do it". I don't like it when they don't answer the question. He starts to go off about how much NBA basketball he watches. Great!!!!:rolleyes: Finally his partner says shut up and listen to the man. So I give him my 2 minute shot clock review. Turns out he only screwed three time, not bad for his first game.

Hold on, there's more. We are ready to start the 2nd period when "NBA Guy" is on his cell. Before putting the ball in play, the whole crew is looking a him and all of a sudden he clues in. He says: "You can start I'm almost done". I said: "No we'll wait until until your finished". Never saw the cell phone after that.

On a different topic, we have a no cell phone policy at the school district where I work. No phones are to be "on" or seen at school. I go to a teacher in-service day last week with approximately 800 teachers in an auditorium. There had to be 40 or 50 teachers that I saw who were texting and about five cell phones that rang during the day. The younger teachers don't even seem to think that there is anything inappropriate about using your cell phone in that situation.

Haha... I will remember this mechanic the next time I inconvenience a member of the table.

Ahh for the good old days before cell phones when scorekeepers were the teachers who were paid to be at the junior high games and every once in awhile you would go to report a foul and the scorekeeper would be deep in conversation with someone sitting two rows behind them. I get started this Thursday beginning with j-high and a I have no doubt that if it isn't a cell phone ringing, it'll be someone eating pizza or some such thing.

Anyone have trouble with cell phones ringing during free throws?
Can you hear me now?

Ahh for the good old days before cell phones when scorekeepers were monks writing with quill pens, the basketballs were made from dinosaur hide, the baskets were used mostly to transport peaches and the games were played in caves.

Oh yeah, the uniform numbers were Egyptian hieroglyphics. :)

Might have told this story once already.

I'm working the shot clock at college. So B is playing tight defense and on one play, the B player tries to steal the ball and in that process, actually put his hand on the ball, twice consecutively, and each time pushed the ball to the floor. The ball was still in the “body space” of A though. There was no contact between A and B. I ruled that this is a change of possession and therefore, reset the shot clock. When A ended up with the ball, 2 seconds later, I reset again. The CC blew the play dead and came over to ask me about it. I told him what happened and he accepted the story.

All while talking on a cell phone?

If you are going to comment on my post, at least comment on what I actually said. I stated earlier that I had already warned the individual about using the cell phone, and it rang again just as the shooter was about to take the shot. Yes, it was a distraction -- to the shooter, to the officials, yada yada yada. That's why he was removed.

And you are absolutely correct. We agree to disagree. That's why they make more than one flavor of ice cream.:rolleyes:

Cell phones don't work in our gym. Too bad they can't bottle that up and sell it.

Ohhhh, just wait... I'm sure they are working on it. Along with the you make the call system. It's a system that let's the fans vote...popular vote wins and that's the call on the floor. ;)

just get one of these.


http://www.vxian.com/item/Cell_Phone_Jammer/292

I haven't really had a problem with cell phones, but last year I was working a JH girls game and had to tell the track coach who was doing the clock that the iPod headphones had to come out of hear ears during the game. She didn't have a clue why we wouldn't want her listening to music during the game but I never saw them again so all was good.

8th grade boys game, clock operator is the son of one of the coaches and is a senior in HS. During the game, he pulls out a paper bag and starts eating a sandwich. I go over to tell him to stop and he does. As I pass by his dad, he says to me, "That's normal - he's out to lunch most of the time anyway". :D

Experience
 

I serve as the official scorekeeper for a small Christian high school in Southern California in two sports and they are volleyball (JV/Varisty Girls/Playoffs)and basketball (Var Girls & Boys, Tournaments, and Playoffs). I just completed my third season of volleyball and am entering my fourth year of basketball. As you can imagine this means I've logged hundreds of hours behind a scorers table and seen the way a lot of table officials behave. The worst problems I have ever seen is visiting scorekeepers wearing I-pods or talking on their cell phones. They do stop when the floor officials tell them to however.
In our basketball league we play all four teams (JV Girls, JV Boys, Var Girls, Var Boys) on the same night starting at 3:00! I show up early to avoid the traffic getting into school and supervise scorekeepers for the games I'm not responsible for.
Here are a list of things I look for when teaching and watching basketball scorkeepers:
A. Introduce yourself to the officiating crew- This sets the tone for your game together as friendly and professional!
B. NO DISTRACTIONS DURING YOUR GAME- This could mean anything from cell phones and I-PODS to significant others hanging around near the table. If you have to be on your phone please wait either until halftime or your game is over.
C. Signal- You have got to signal for 1 & 1, Double Bonus, and 5 fouls! I also signal the type of time out if it is not reported to floor officials and # remaining if late in the game.
D. Bench Interaction- Make sure you notify coaches when kids reach the following foul benchmarks: 2 quick fouls in first half, 3 fouls, 4 fouls, and 5 fouls. When you notify coaches of foul trouble make sure they are not talking with their players.
E. Book-
1. Fill in all pertinent pre-game information (Teams, Date, Site, Officials Names, Scorekeeper's Name, Players Names & Jersey Numbers)!
2. Put 3 full timeouts and 2 30's at the top of your book!
3. Write timeouts in correctly! (Find the period then write in the time remaining and separate it from type used by a dash.)
4. Running Score is marked and filled out correctly!
5. Quarters are totaled!
6. Fouls are marked correctly and any questions are asked immediately!
In my experience when student assistants know they are being watched the quality of their work is exemplary!

I wish there were more like you!

Good list. I may print this off and keep this in my basketball binder. I might make one more suggestion, especially for a noisy gym where you might not hear what's said over the ambient noise:

B½ - Make sure you have eye contact with the officials on all foul calls. If there is any doubt on the number, beckon them.

###

I had a pro-level championship game this summer with an SRO crowd and music during the game, so it was next to impossible to hear anything the officials said. So at the first stoppage in play, I beckoned the closest one to the table and let them know that due to the noise, I would have to rely on them giving clear signals/numbers on fouls and that I would nod my head to the calling official once I had the number. It worked well for the situation.

That is one of the first things we are taught when starting out and you are right. However point "B" was meant to address issues such as personnel talking with their boyfriends/girlfriends or cell phone usage during the game. In teaching both basketball and volleyball I emphasize that your control of the match/game starts when you sit down at the table. At this point your cell phones and I-pods should be put away in a backpack. During basketball season I call our other host school during the half to see how that game is playing out but conversations are always completed well before halftime's end.

Here are two stories,one each from volleyball and basketball, which demonstrate the methods to my madness for any student who wonders why I am so hard on them:

Basketball: This story was taken from a book called "The Miracle of St. Anthony". It is basically an author's trip through the '03-'04 season with the St. Anthony's boys basketball team. A really good read for about $20.00!

Head Coach: Bob Hurley Scorekeeper: Chris Hurley (His Wife)

This chapter starts with Hurley's game day routine then goes into a chat with the team's student manager. This story basically describes how Chris Hurley had become her husband's official scorekeeper 35 years ago.

"Chris had taken over the job one game after a student scorekeeper made a mistake in corresponding the names and uniform numbers in the official book, and error that caused a referee to award her husband's opponent eleven technical foul shots to start the game. As most might imagine, it didn't go over well with him. From then on, the job was turned over to the person he most trusted in the world, his wife (Wojnarowski 71).

Lesson here: I am fortunate enough to work for a team (Varsity Boys) who's assistant coach writes in the names and numbers of our opponents if he can find the roster on MaxPreps. With the varsity girls I copy the names and numbers of opponents either out of a program (Woodcrest Tournament) or get them from the visiting book. Either way verify with the visiting scorekeeper that what you have for their team is correct. If you have a problem with your own team's names and numbers then we've got serious issues.

Volleyball: Here is an article from the Desert Sun in Palm Springs,CA describing a scorkeeper for the host school (Desert Christian of Bermuda Dunes) failing to catch a crucial mistake!

BERMUDA DUNES - A disputed call ended Desert Christian's hopes of reaching the CIF Division V-AA volleyball championship for a fourth consecutive time as they were defeated by Faith Baptist of Canoga Park on Tuesday night.

In the fourth game with the Conquerors trailing 22-20, a timeout was called by Faith Baptist despite them not having one available.

By rule, Desert Christian should've been awarded an automatic point and the serve. However, the call was missed and the Contenders went on to score the two points they needed to end the Conquerors' hopes of a third consecutive CIF championships.

Faith Baptist won 25-22, 21-25, 25-20, 25-23.

Conquerors' coach Stu Rowland was disappointed by the ruling.

"We played hard," Rowland said. "You just hate to have your team's hopes ended by a blown call, but then again that's why you play hard to try and avoid those situations. All in all, both sides played hard. It was a fun match."

The Conquerors also suffered a major injury in the first game as outside hitter Ally Doyle suffered a badly sprained left ankle and was unable to continue.

Senior Kelsey Kolar thought that the loss of Doyle put the Conquerors in a tough position.

"We were unlucky in the first game," Kolar said. "Losing a key player like Ally made it hard to regroup. We were ready to play physically, but mentally we weren't."

Senior Jen Trahan said the team tried its best to regroup.

"I think we did a good job of trying to regroup, but it just wasn't enough," Trahan said.

The first game saw the Conquerors jump out to an early 9-3 lead, but they were unable to hold it as the Contenders came away with the 25-22 victory.

In the second game, the Conquerors rallied from a late deficit to win 25-21.

In the third game, the Contenders jumped ahead early and held off a late Conqueror rally in winning 25-20.

The fourth game saw the Conquerors fall behind 14-6 and then rally to tie it at 23, before ultimatley falling 25-23 and thus ending their season.

Rowland was still proud of the way his team kept fighting.

"I'm very proud of the way they played tonight," he said. "They fought all the way to the end, just as they have all year."

Kolar led the Conquerors with 10 kills, eight digs and six aces, while Paige Dieker also had 10 kills.

Jen Essig had 31 assists, and Kiara Gamble had four blocks.

Desert Christian concludes its season with a record of 18-5 and 12-0 in Victory League.


Lesson Here: Mistakes like this should not happen and especially at the playoff level. In our association most of the volleyball scorekeepers are students who have a tendancy to gab with their friends when they should be focusing on the match. When you work a match ,whether it be against your bitter league rival or that league's worst team, focus must be there from start of pre game to its' conclusion.