New time out mechanic
 

I was wondering what anyone who has used the new time out mechanic thinks about it. Any thoughts?

Do you mean the horn at 15 seconds of a 30 instead of 20, or are you talking about the positioning of the officials during any time-out in 2-man?
BTW the positioning is not really new. It is actually a return to the old way. There has already been a thread on the forum about it.

The change of the horn is not a "mechanic." The changing of the positioning is a change in the mechanic. Whether it was new or not, I am sure not everyone is familiar with what was once used.

Peace

I have no issue with the change. There were questions posted regarding the change on how officials would address the benches at the warning horn, depending on where the ball would be inbounded, etc. In Texas I am told we are not changing. We will continue to use Top of the Key and lower blocks for our postions.

I think the return to the "old" mechanic is a good change. I never liked the mechanic of having both officials on the block or the top of the key.

That said, this falls at about number 1000 on the list of concerns.

I love it!!!

Horn change is great, mechanic of standing at center circle and at the location of the inbounds (2-man only) is great.

I think TX is missing a good thing. Under the new mechanic, coaches now know where the ball will be put in play and the ONE ref can control both benches easily, rather than having both refs bringing them out with different force. Also let's you start the RPP easier.

I agree that I thought it was a good thing in most cases. I was looking forward to the change. There will still be occasions when common sense should be used as with any mechanic.

Actually I think this mechanic is kind of silly. For one why would you want to put the ball on the floor? I can see it now, some cheerleader is going to fall over the ball or some kid or player and it will be our fault. Secondly, even in 3 person when we would stand exactly with the spot, coaches would still not know where the ball was coming in at. I even had a couple times where it was a debate as to where the ball should be put in. This is not going to do more than cause more problems if you ask me.

Peace

You DON'T put the ball on the floor (unless you need to leave the spot to confer with the other ref, etc., which should be rare). You hold the ball at the spot of the throw in (preferable on the hip in the direction of the team throwing it in).

Why you put the ball on the floor is not a good reason anytime if you ask me. So if a coach cannot ask and you cannot tell them, there is a larger problem at work. Before that was not encouraged and I can tell you that I am not personally not going to be doing this. I also see the potential for spectators to also mess with the basketball. You do not have to agree, it is just my personal opinion. Just like some people do not see a need to use the “not closely guarded” signal, they do not have to use this mechanic either in my opinion.

Peace

I agree I would not put the ball down on the floor. However, if you have schedulers that want you to look professional and you go stand at the old spot while your partner is with the ball/spot or at center court, you will look silly and not be scheduled for HS games. The coaches go to the same rules/mechanics meetings so they know where you are supposed to stand as well. Imagine you are at the low block (incorrectly), and your partner is at the center line (correctly), and the coach believes the throw in from the sideline when it's really at the endline in a tie game. He just spent a minute devising a play for the sideline. Guess who will call your state association and NOT recommend you for advancement?

You stand at the throw in spot for a visual / time saver.

I don't like it because of its singular flaw.

Preceding a throw-in at the division line, the administering official cannot see the table through the the free official's backside.

In my state, most coaches never attend a single rules meeting. Coaches know very little about mechanics in detail. I bet most coaches have no idea there has been a change. It is only required for a school to be represented each year from each school. That usually means the first year freshman B coach that has never coached before at the HS level attends these meetings. And they do not do a very good job passing along the information because most varsity coaches are surprised by many rules that are implemented. Secondly my state pretty much does 3 Person the entire season in most games (I am not working a single 2 Man varsity game this season and I work in multiple areas). Also all coaches can do is rate us, they have no recommendation opportunities. And I seriously doubt that any coach is going to care more about a silly mechanic used as compared to someone not being able to call a game properly.

So the last thing I am going to worry about is if I do not use this mechanic how it will directly affect me in my advancement. I am sure there are more things to it than this single mechanic.

Peace

Geeze, mick - how big is your partner's backside? :eek:

I think the purpose of this mechanic is communication - at some point a coach or asst. is going to stick their head out of the huddle and ask where the ball is going to be put in play, and having an official stand at the spot of the throw-in communicates that information easier. Also, late in the game when the officials are getting together to discuss their end-of-game strategy, leaving the ball at the spot of the throw-in also communicates that info to the teams.

In NCAA-W, the mechanic for the last couple of years was to put the ball down on the floor at the spot of the throw-in, even if the official was standing next to it. I thought the same thing Jeff did - someone would trip over it, steal it, or kick it away, but that never happened to me, or to anyone else I know. The reason given for changing the mechanic back this year to the official holding the ball at the spot was because the rules committee didn't like the "unprofessional" way the officials were picking up the ball after the TO. Some officials would pound on it and bounce it up, others would put their foot under it and kick it up; these methods are not as "professional" looking as simply bending over and picking it up.

Ha! just sayin'.... Just sayin'....
...Especially when it's a full timeout and partner is on circle, away from the table, you'll feel like yer 'shut out', if you ever work two-whistle. :)

That's why in those cases I just take a step or two to the side. (Usually depending on which side the cheerleaders are on...is that mentioned in the mechanics manual?)

Go ahead. Enjoy the cheerleaders.
I wish they were somewhere else, ...in another room perhaps.

Ha, yourself! You're assuming I automatically want to be closer. I just want the option some nights.

What works at the NCAA level does not always work very well at the HS level. Cheerleaders at the HS level are not as smart. And I have seen officials put the ball on the floor and I have seen cheerleaders almost trip over the ball. I almost ran into a cheerleader that was flipping on the court during a 30 second timeout (because cheerleaders are stupid).

The bottom line is I might use the mechanic on a case by case basis. But I think the ball on the floor only takes one time for there to be a really problem.

Peace

Maybe mick's right - we just need to send them to another room?...

If there were no cheerleaders, I probably would be OK with this mechanic.

The last time I checked, NCAA-W Basketball does not have cheerleaders. :D

Peace

But if my partner is female and nicely constructed, this could be a bonus. I'm just sayin' ;)

I think this is her. And no - that is NOT Juulie!



http://www.petanque.org/postcards/pi...os_fessier.jpg

Well, duh, if you are doing varsity and only 3-man, then it's a moot point. However, if you do subvarsity 2-man, and your partner goes to the correct spot and you don't, I guaranty the varsity refs watching your game (probably from halftime on), will notice it. Refs in the stands will notice it. If the scheduler is in the stands or some other rules official, he/she will notice it. And they will all start from that obvious flaw and search for more - and soon decide if they want to work with you or not.

My thought on this is why kick advancement opportunity in the backside over an obvious mechanic. Let them downgrade you over not performing a "pinch in" move on a breakaway, but not THIS!

Plus, when your partner has the ball at the endline, go ahead and stand on the low block right by him then walk all the way up the court to signal first horn to the visiting team. That would look goofy to almost everyone.

But hey, it's your career! Stand up for your principles! :D

I both assign, train and evaluate. If I'm evaluating somebody for advancement, someone standing in the wrong place during a TO would have absolutely no bearing at all on my decision as to whether they're ready for a higher level. It's just about the most minor concern that you could get, and is also just about the easiest to correct.

I want to know if someone can actually <b>officiate</b>. I could care less about piddly-azz stuff like that. If they're out of position during <b>play</b>, then you do have a problem. During a TO, it just isn't a biggie. If they wanna go boogaloo with the cheerleaders, I could care less.

I agree. However, here you have a guy REFUSING to do it when he knows he should. It goes to state of mind and what ELSE he will refuse to do on the court - not call handchecking? Rough post play? It's a renegade mentality.

The mechanic says "the adminstering official may set the ball down".
It does not say *should set*, *must set*.

I'm with Rut. I won't do it.

You haven't checked in a while, have you? I've been to several women's games that include cheerleaders. But college cheerleading squads are (usually) better trained and more skilled.

Me neither. But I will go to where I am supposed to go.

Renegade? :D You really get carried away, don't you? Not following a mechanic during a timeout isn't the end of civilization as we know it. It also doesn't really have dick-all to do with whether someone is a capable official or not.

Again, I agree that it has little to do with knowledge of rules or application. It has a lot to do with judgment and professionalism. My opinion. I just wonder what else he "won't do" with the game on the line. That's all.

I think a lot of mechanics are stupid - but we do them because we are supposed to. Would you want a ref who won't switch properly and makes his partner do a long switch because he's inherently lazy (but a great caller)? Same mentality.

It has got absolutely dick-all to do with judgment and professionalism. My opinion.

What you're talking about is completely irrelevant when you're trying to determine whether someone is a capable, knowledgeable and proficient official. I've met and talked to a ton of evaluators/assignors and I've never met <b>one</b> that thought something as trivial as this was important. Yes, you might mention it to someone. But if they wander a bit for some reason, who cares? We care if they can do the job <b>during</b> the game.

And what is that "job"? Is switching properly part of that job? Is using the correct foul mechanic? Is using a wrist flip on a FT? It all adds up is my point. Add to that a blatant statement that he REFUSES - well....

As a former HS varsity coach, if I was led to believe the ball was coming out under the basket when a mechanic was in place to specifically show me (and it used to be this way - not really new) and it came out on the sideline by halfcourt, and it cost me, I would have the refs head in a vice.

I respect your opinion. We just disagree.

KSRef07,
Do you realize that you were talking about choosing to put the ball on the floor and, having abandoned that topic, you are now squeezing a partner's face? ;)

Well considering that I am a varsity official, I bet you I will not lose my shirt because someone did not set the ball down. ;)

You keep talking about advancement as if someone will lose everything based on a single mechanic. I have yet to meet an official that goes through the exact process of calling a PC foul (or even a TC foul). And as a clinician, I will not go crazy over this mechanic and I have yet to hear anyone higher than me going crazy from what I understand. I might make them aware of the mechanic, but I am not going to hold someone back because of it. Maybe that is how it works around you, it does not work that way here.

I think my career is quite alright. Thank you for the advice. ;)

Peace

No I was not. The original poster (see post #15) was talking about refusing to stand in the designated new spots in 2-man, AND also not putting the ball down. I agreed with not putting the ball down but not the other. Simple as that.

They better be, someone has to watch something interesting during the games. :D

Peace

I see.

At our district meeting Ronnie Giraourd told us that although we are not using the new mechanic in TX, to indicate the spot, we will set the ball down on the floor at the spot. (I believe we'll still have it as an option...I don't like the idea and probably won't set the ball down. If the coach wants to know where the spot will be, he/she can ask like they do now and I'll be happy point and show them where it will be.)