Nasty coach
 

He yells at the girls "That was lousy!" He throws his clipboard in disgust when there is a turnover. He yells, "I've told you a hundred times" and other such unhelpful meaningless tripe.

These are eighth grade girls. Girls I know from Little League softball. Girls I know who work 110%, especially when they get positively expressed constructive criticism. They deserve better treatment and would do better if they had a coach that would at least explain what they did incorrectly.

And there's nothing I can do because I'm the ref. Plus I really dislike this guy as coach.

Could I at least T him for throwing the clipboard? Sigh, fortunately I'm not assigned anymore of his games for middle school. Maybe I'll ask not to be assigned any of his games for high school as well.

I know the AD for the school. I'm tempted to suggest a coaching clinic for him? Or at least that she listen to him coach a game?

Rita

Rita C, where are the parents of the girls that he coaches. I guess they don't feel anything or mind the way he speaks to them. I can tell you that they do but won't make any waves becuase these parents are looking for a meal ticket to their higher education. So if they make waves that stays with them and unfortunatly that will follow the girls into high school. I think making a comment to the AD might help..

The State commissioner the other day stated at the state clinic a very wise comment. "We at the high school level are preparing these kids to be good citizens and winning may not be the only thing in life. yes we all want to win, but don't sacrafice the career and the mental attitude of these kids. If you are here to win only, You should go back into your school tomorrow and resign your position". Of course it was being directed to the coaches who were also at the clinic.

First time I ever heard that said at the high school level.

By all means, whack him when he throws the clipboard. Then, when he yells at you, toss him -- problem solved!!

I would definitely talk to the AD, especially if she's a personal friend. Kids definitely don't need this treatment and rarely, rarely does it yield the kinds of things we say we're working toward.

you might also talk to your assignor about telling other refs not to tolerate the clipboard thing, and to be very itchy about how he talks to anyone.

My guess is that if he's that irritated with his players, he probably gets irritated quickly with the refs. If so, it shows he's out of control. If not, well, I'm not sure it's not worse if he's doing that under complete emotional control. Something tells me it's all controled, but that's only a guess.

Either way, I'm with Julie, I'd be inclined to ring him up for tossing a clipboard; even if it's obviously in disgust at his team, it's middle school. I don't think it's any different than if he swore at them for all to hear.

He's taking a risk by doing that, that the refs aren't going to think he's tossing the clipboard in disgust at them.

Whack him for the clipboard thing. That's unacceptable behavior no matter who it's aimed at. I wouldn't go looking for a reason to unload him either, no matter how much you dislike the guy. But if he chooses to go there...

I would definitely talk to your assigner about this guy's behavior. If enough people bring it up to the assigner, the assigner will likely pass it on to somebody who can fix the problem. And the assigner is almost certainly in a stronger position to address it with the AD than you are. Especially if he/she can tell the AD that many/several/numerous officials have commented on the behavior.

If you feel you must do something more direct, perhaps a letter to the AD or principal stating that you were in attendance at the game (without stating why) and outlining concrete examples of behavior you felt were inappropriate.

Just my $0.02

Do not get involved. Penalize for behavior as you would for anyone else. Your objectivity is your livelihood. Karma will take care of the rest.

Disagree.

It's the AD's job to handle this, not yours. You're interjecting yourself into a situation that others are paid to handle. See above.

I'll re-disagree. It's the AD's job to handle this, but it's everyone's business to express disapproval of the jerk's behavior, so that the AD knows she needs to handle it, and that she'll have lots of support for handling it. She needs to know for sure what's happening (which she may not), she needs to know that several people disapprove, and she needs to know that it's appropriate to work with the guy to change his behavior.

Whose support? An independent contractor who was hired for about 90 minutes on a random Tuesday? And now that contractor, whom the AD views as little more than a necessary evil and a drain on the athletic budget, wants to advise the AD on personnel matters? The odds of this blowing up in the official's face are at least 50/50. Probably worse.

How would you react if the plumber you hired to fix the sink felt the need to call the next day to share his views on the way you raise your kids? How often do we joke about going into some obnoxious coach or fan's place workplace and giving our unqualified critique of how they do their work? It's only ever talked about because the sheer absurdity of the situation illustrates a point. But now you're actually suggesting that one of us actually do it! :eek:

Perhaps everybody should express their disapproval of this guy's behavior. But it's not appropriate for everybody to express it to the AD directly.

You do not know the whole story. All you know is what you see in a 3 foot by 14 foot box for 32 minutes. But now you've gone beyond your duties as an official and interjected yourself into an issue that others are paid to handle. If this AD is that clueless that she doesn't know what's going on, then that is an issue for the principal, supt, & BOE. (or whatever the chain of command). He could be the best thing going for that program, you don't know.

Insert anecdotal evidence... I played for a coach who was well known in my HS association for his boorish sideline behavior. In fact he even has a nickname. But when others talk about him I just kinda of keep qiuet. All they know is by what they know working his games. He was a HOF coach in our state. He was old school and demanding and even sometimes demeaning, but pushed you beyond your capabilities, physically and mentally. On the flip side he is a churchgoing and very dedicated family man. He was here for ~25 years until he retired, obviously those in charge of his employment thought enough of him to keep him around. He is well respected by former players, to the point that many return to give back to the program throughout their adult life. He turned a lot of boys into men.

Now I realize this is somewhat different as you story is about JRHigh girls, but trust me things won't get to the point where the snowflakes are going to melt, the helos will make sure of that.

Also this.

During half-time is usually a good time to privately tell the coach that while you are not suggesting how to coach his team, his ferocity is becoming a bit of a distraction to refs and fans, alike.

I go back to my earlier post, Where are the parents, if he is so demeaning, arogant, loud mouth, puts the girls down, I would never have anyone speak to my daughter that way. where are the parents. I agree with BITS. We are officials paid to do a service, how many coaches have we seen in our careers that do that all the time. If you want to make a comment to the AD, fine. If the Ad hasn't seen the behavior, it's becuase he/she knows a lot more about this coach than we do, as well as the parents do to. he may be the best coach next to slice bread we don't know. Whack him for the clip board make a comment and move on. IMO.

Mick, as a fan, maybe I would talk to him and say that. As a ref, you are opening a can of worms that I think you may want to stay away from..You open yourself to a bunch of remarks. I think T'ing him up for the clipboard will shut him up.

I noticed that.
I prefer to **warn** , then *whack*.

A cliche that I live by "no good deed goes unpunished" applies in this case. Your heart is in the right place but you have no business suggesting coaching changes or issuing a technical for behaviour that is not directed at you. If he's as abusive as you describe he'll eventually get what he deserves. Your job is to officiate the game in an objective manner. Leave the decision on who coaches what to the AD and Principal. Good Luck this season.

Maybe, but once the clipboard's thrown, it's too late.

Had to see it. How far did it go?. Did it hit a player? Was it due to an official call? Was it a knee-jerk reaction to a player?

Judge it. Your call and your game. I'll back you.
Few actions, for me, are as automatic to me as your thrown clipboard.

If (and that's a big if, she's friends with the AD, I have no problem talking to her as a friend about it. Sort of an "I have noticed" conversation. However, if you're not more than casual acquaintances, I'd let it go and only deal with it as a ref within the confines of the individual games.

Hit him for the clipboard, perhaps. If he swears, ring him up. Chances are, if you do it once, he'll be a bit more careful; especially if he doesn't have any assistants to step up in his absence.

AHA! Mystery solved! :eek:

I shouldn't even recognized this post by replying, so with due respect but sorry you're mistaken.

You don't know the whole story either. You don't know that things won't get to the point where the snowflakes are going to melt.

Rita said she knew the AD. In my opinion, she should express her concern to the AD, as should the parents and fans who observe this unacceptable behavior. For all Rita knows, a couple of parents have complained and one more opinion will make the difference between the AD waiting and the AD dealing with it. If the AD knows about the sitch already, and is choosing to let it continue, Rita's opinion won't make much difference.

Also, there is a huge difference between Jr. Hi girls and varsity boys. Huge difference. I disagree with every yelling and belittling anyone as a motivational tool. I just think it's wrong. But in our society it's mostly acceptable for varsity boys. But I"m sorry, middle age girls are different.

Furthermore, Rita knows these girls, and has worked with them. SHe knows that what this coach is doing isn't going to accomplish what he wants. For that reason alone, she should talk to the AD.

I do know that it won't get to that point, how? the REFVA's (see post #12 first sentence) of the world will make sure, of which they are entitled, not you as an official.

Look you're right I don't know and I already conceded the fact that this is MS girls and not boys, but again does she? Does she go to practices? Know all the other aspects of the coach/player relationship?

If she knows these girls and the situation so well as to get involved emotionally, then why is she working their games? This is exactly why we shouldn't, she's not objective.

The OP obviously started this thread seeking comment. The consensus of the posts of this thread (not just mine) say leave it alone. Her (and your) emotional closeness is clouding her (and your) objectivity.

Men are from Mars...Women are from Venus.

When we officiate...we all should be from the planet Neptune. (Its neutral);)

There is not a consensus to leave it alone. Several have said it might be appropriate to make a comment to the AD. Several others have said to whack for the clipboard thing, and for any profanity.

Why is she working a MS game with girls that she knows? Because it's a small town area where it's hard to find any refs at all to work any games much less MS girls (which certain refs might refuse).

And btw, the so-called-REFVA's of the world ARE letting this go on. They aren't stopping it. I as the ref don't have the right to yell at them, or even confront them, or even to confront the coach directly about this. But I would certainly take advantage of a relationship with the AD to express my opinion, and I believe it's my obligation to do so.

I didn't say I'd "handle it" or "deal with it" or "interfere". I can't, I have no authority. And I didn't say I would or should. What I said was that I'd express an opinion to someone who can deal with it.

That doesn't mean I'm letting my emotions get the better of me. It means I"m being a human being with ... alright, I"ll say it... empathy for other human beings. THere's certainly nothing wrong with that.

Well, as long as we're off topic, how bout those Rockies? Pretty amazing run, eh?

If that is indeed the case, and there is absolutely no way to avoid working this game, even more cause to be a objective as humanly possible and staying away from any sort of personnel drama.

And others have warned you this has the possibility of blowing up in your face, no good deed goes unpunished, etc etc etc. If you don't want to listen to me fine, listen to them.

I'll throw my $.02 in here also.
I'd let it go. Officiate the games as you would any other and don't let this coach's style affect your call. It's not under your jurisdiction to regulate someones coaching unless it violates the rules.
I wouldn't say anything about it to the AD either. As others have said, if he's really that bad, then others see it too.

Juulie - even though I'm an American League fan (despite the DH, which makes me puke), I was pulling for the DBacks. That's because their founder, Jerry Colangelo (also the Phoenix Suns guy) went to my HS.

Good grief, I'm not the one who asked for advice, I don't need warning, and I don't NEED to listen to you or anyone else. I will, of course, consider anything anyone says, but that doesn't mean I'm going to do it. I'm not the one who asked the question, remember. Rita asked what she should do. I made my suggestions. Others made theirs. I don't see why I need to be the one to take the fall here.

Sorry - you try to play Bobby Knight in one of my games, you get (at least) a T.

One of my most (in)famous post-game ejections was of this very variety.

I didn't say it was automatic. If it's a dropped clipboard, that's different. If I don't see him actually throw it, it's different. If he tries to throw it onto his chair, it's different. In a high school game, it's even a bit different.

MS games? My tolerance for airborne clipboards goes way down.

AMEN!

Your post-game ejections have degrees of infamousness? :confused:

To clarify - they've all come in intramural games.

I think that if this coach is behaving like this on a regular basis and gets a steady diet of deserved technical fouls called on him, the AD will notice. I would be pretty PO'd if I were the custodian who waxed the floor, though.

I log in to celebrate a big Sox win and I find "infamousness"?!?! I have to go now, I'm starting to feel dizzy. Room getting. . . dark. . .

Well, I had to ask, and I decided against 'infamity', so... :p

...infamitude?

... Infanimity.

Pleafe! Ftop the infanity!

Isn't this better than talking about the Red Sox?

I agree 101% :D