Association politics
 

Taking this to a new thread....replying to http://forum.officiating.com/showpost.php?p=445881&postcount=53

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker Camron, the problem is that there are certain "top" (and it's interesting, isn't it that all the top folks are guys?) who simply can't believe anyone could possibly be as good as they are, and they don't even try to help. They are polite and "encouraging" to your face, but what they tell you is meaningless at best or downright unhelpful. I know you don't believe this. But the fact of the matter is, it's true.

First, you show me more than 1-2 women who have spent 15-20 years officiating…the amount that those top guys took to get to the top (and the same amount of time that ten times as many men spent and never reached the top) and we’ll talk about that point. The fact is, most new officials (both men and women) want a quick jump to the top and aren’t willing to work their way up the same as the guys at the top have already done. They claim it is unfair after 2-6 years and quit.

The women that do spend the time find bigger opportunities that just aren’t open to men and just move on...a good thing for them. You can’t deny that women’s college assignors will hire a female over a male just about any day if the female is merely in the same ballpark as the male.

You also talk as if everyone should be obligated to teach and be helpful. In a utopian world it might happen. The fact of the matter is that some people don't care about you or anyone but themselves and their closest friends. They have no obligation to association, you, or anyone else. While they (most) don't try to harm anyone else, they have no interest in helping others. Would you rather them just say "You suck" to someone that asks and walk away? How would that be any more helpful?
<O:p</O:p
On more than one occasion, I've tried to offer solicited advice only to be met with argumentative disagreement. It's all too common. Such behavior makes those initially willing to help stop trying. It’s not worth the headaches to many.
<O:p</O:p
Again, people go through the motions of asking for help but then discount everything they’re told. Asking is not enough…listening and believing is required.<O:p</O:p
Sure there are great people who want to give back. You're never going to get everyone in that boat.
<O:p</O:p

Sure, some people don't want to help others topple them from their perch…insecure in their ability to keep their place on merit. That's their choice...nothing says that they should be willing to help anyone that asks. How many teams see their opponents struggling and give them pointers on how to beat them? It is a competitive field.

I know exactly who you are talking about. Having been in the association since 1993, I only first met the guy about 1-2 years ago....just never crossed paths. I had never seen him work a game at all, ever. I don't vote for people who I've never seen work. Since I saw him work a game, I've voted for him ever since. There are several reasons he may not be noticed. Among them are that he seems like a quiet guy that keeps to himself...something that would work against him in a voting system. He also works a limited HS schedule (less than 1/2 the number of games of the average varsity official)...making few chances for others (officials and coaches) to see him and know who he is or how good he is. I've never seen him in a spring, summer, or fall league game....maybe he does a few but Can't vote for a guy that you don't see work.

Was race a factor? Could be. More than likely the larger contribution was his lack of visibility. If race was really the factor, why did he and another minority make it at all...2 out of 19....a more than representative number....both by vote the vote of the rest of the association.
There were certainly several officials better than some of the ones that did go. But that was what the association wanted. They gave the commissioner explicit picks to the tourney so he could send some women (as well as minorities) even if there were 30-40 men that were better. The association wanted the commissioner to send people just like the one you're refering to...people that are (were) really good but were not appropriate recognized by their peers. Some even believe that there were people in the 6A boys who were in over their head.
In fact, the current system favored the very groups of people you're refering to....minorities and women were represented among the tourney selections at greater numbers than thier membership in the association.

Providing the opportunites to be looked at seems to be key here. If there is not a consistent process in place for who gets looked at and how, then happenstance, old boyism and other factors not having to do with ability will play a greater role. Formal observations, consistent criteria, cross checking the evaluators and publicizing the process results in better officials and moves the avocation forward.

Politics is a reality of life. If it was not we probably would not have the current President that we have now for this country. I am not saying this as a political statement; I am saying that as a reality. Just like people get into colleges because their parents went there, people get all kinds of opportunities in life because they are related to or they know someone very well. Or someone might have an opportunity because they know someone very well. And if you think it does not apply to officiating, just look at the roster of the NFL, Major League Baseball and even the NBA. You would be surprised of all the officials that are working those levels have relatives or parents that worked that very league or they have powerful officiating parents who assign major D1 leagues.

That being said we also as individuals worry way too much about this issue. Most people in officiating do not get ahead simply on a political edge. Of course politics plays a role, but it is not the end all be all position. I would also say to Juulie that some of your references in my opinion sound a little out of place. No one has to help you. And if someone is telling you to continue to work hard, that does not mean they are pushing you off or not trying to help you. Not everyone is going to give detailed evaluations to yours or my liking. When I have gotten detailed evaluations, I usually had to press them to give that kind of evaluation. Also depending on your interaction, I know from experience I might not say a lot of things to your face because it would not be taken well or it would not be appropriate for that kind of evaluation. For example if you are going to a camp that is to hire people, most observers are not going to give you a lot of personal information without being asked in a one on one situation.

Let me also address this. Working a college schedule is not a guarantee that you will be able to work a HS post season game. Many times HS post season is going on at the very same time that college games are going on especially at the lower level colleges. So just because someone got a high level college post season assignment, does not mean they are available to even work. And in some circles right or wrong there are people that think people that dedicate their seasons to college should not be working HS post season games.

The problem with this discussion is there are so many dynamics to it that will change from one organization to another.

Peace

So Jeff, you're saying Bush is President because of poltitics? Made me chuckle.

No, I am saying he became President on his family history more than the merit. No different than a current candidate that is in the spotlight because of their spouse.

But I get the joke BTW. ;)

Peace

Just filling in for Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy. :D

Well, his opponents didn't offer much in the race either...particulary in the first election...the voters essentially had to pick which one they tought was the least bad.

:D

Wow. Got some bitterness issues, Cam?

Not at all. I'm actually very happy with where I am. I'm treated fairly and have no complaint about my place in things. You nor any one else has ever or will ever hear me complain about my own situation. I'm not the type to complain and blame others for my position in things. My rate of advancement has been far more under my control than anything else.

True, I didn't go to the tourney....but I also didn't expect to go to the tourney. Even if a few of the people that did go were not actually picked, there were still a few others more capable and deserving to go than myself. I'm getting closer every year and I do expect to make it at some point....maybe this year, maybe not.

I was one of the stronger proponents of the general principles by which we changed our tourney selection system....to allow the commissioner to pick people directly in order to ensure that women and minorities had fair opportunities...you can check my posting history on that very topic about 1 year ago when we briefly talked about our new system. I was simply highly suprised at some of the specific commish's pick. I didn't expect to be one of them.

I simply get tired of people always whining and moaning about the way things are when, for the most part, they only have themselves to blame for their lack of progress. It's all too easy to blame a good ole boy system, racial or gender discrimination, or favoritism....they are popular and inherently strong, highly sensitive, arguments....ones in which taking opposing views often serves to get you labeled as a good ole boy, racist, or chauvinist. I'm just more willing than most to call it BS when it is.

Exactly. A neighboring association to Portland may not have these problems, but they also may have their own, completely different set of problems.

None of 'em(us) are perfect. You have to play the hand that you're dealt.

That made me chuckle (inside) but it is a sad statement.
Did he really get elected the first time?
The second time is beyond my understanding...why America why?!!

I agree there are politics in life and basketball officiating is no different. The sad part is the biggest losers are the players. I love this game and it sickens me to see what goes on that doesn't do justice to the game. I can take myself out of the equation and say we are not putting our best foot forward and IMO it just hurts the game.

Completely off-topic and I will not be upset if it gets deleted. But:

It's time for hardcore Democrats to give up this illusion. Three separate Florida newspapers (Orlando, Miami and Tamp/St. Pete) did separate hand recounts of the Florida ballots. A university (I believe it was the University of Wisconsin) Political Science department also did its own independent study of the ballots. All four studies determined that Bush received the most votes in Florida. Additionally, it's likely (although this is just a guess) that he would have received even more votes in the panhandle of Florida if the media reports hadn't declared Gore the winner prematurely.

Like him or hate him, he won. It's time to stop whining about it. (Full disclosure: I am NOT registered Republican.)

No matter what the ballot looked like, we still would have found a way to screw it up. It's Florida. That's what we do.

Interesting transition..Association Politics to Florida ballots.

This is long…sorry. The way I look at advancing, and this may only apply in our association, is that I play the biggest role in my advancement.

My association tries to have evaluators watch the lower level officials work. The problem is that there are simply not many retired officials who are willing to do this task. In an attempt to compensate, the assignment secretary will try to assign a “prospect” to a sub-varsity game where the varsity match-up will be high profile…regardless of the quality of the sub-varsity competition. For example, early last season I received a call from one of our board members informing me he would be at my game to watch me work the first half…a game I almost refused because the visiting team is ALWAYS horrible (JV and varsity were not playing the same school)…because the assignment secretary wanted “feedback on my readiness”. He liked what he saw at our camp and wanted another opinion.

Just working hard will not assure advancement. I can work hard and be out of position, have lousy foul call selection and not be able to handle an irritated coach. I need to work hard on improving the areas where I am deficient. If you go to teaching camps, you cannot say you don’t know what those areas are in your game…you were given evaluations…go back and read them every week (if not before every game).

Speaking of camps…I need to choose them wisely. I can go to good camps that will not help in the short term. Living in Texas, going to Coast to Coast or similar camps out of state will not give the “powers that be” in my association an opportunity to see me work and measure my improvement. I need to go to camps where those people will either be on staff or always go to observe officials from my association.

I need to be physically ready when the season starts. Being 90 percent can be bad. Early in the season, at least around here, there are game on almost every night. When district play starts, the games are usually only on Tuesday and Friday. That means the people that need to see me will have to observe early in the season.

Become one of the rules and mechanic gurus in your association. You do not have to be the most athletic person in the association to know the rules and proper mechanics. I have found that if you can nail those two things you take a big step forward.

I also need to play “the political game”…volunteer or just show up and help with the training of new officials (because board members and the assignment secretary are there as well). Volunteer to serve of standing committees and help with special events (like the State Meeting we are hosting). Find out if any of those people have “pet projects” that they support and make an appearance. For example, the association president always plays in a particular charity golf tournament…this year I took a day off and played in it as well. I did not play with him, but had several opportunities to meet his friends and socialize with them…giving him a chance to get to know me better.

If you are doing all those things and still not progressing (or having obstacles thrown in your way) then you are facing a problem that may not have a solution.

I totally understand what you are saying and you may very well be right. However, don't believe everything you hear on the news - yes, to include the questionable ballots too.
After living in DC for three years and seeing how low us humans can stoop, I believe anything is possible.

Back to basketball officiating politics. I want to plead with every young official: do not be a brown noser, worrying about politics, before you take care of your (officiating) game on and off the court. This is a business where opportunity may knock several times, once or not at all and it will have nothing to do with your ability. There are also those guys who you see climbing the ladder and you know they just have the gift.
Putting forth the correct effort is so important. Politics can put an official in a position they shouldn't be in and don't deserve. If you get burned for being someplace too soon, you may not ever get the chance to get back.
We have meetings here, in Mississippi, and I just feel like telling a lot of guys to shut up and listen. They are so worried about making witty comments and talking about all the "what ifs" that they can't get the basics. It is so dumb and frustrating to see guys running their mouths all the time and you know they can't ref to save their lives.

I have to go, I forgot to block an official. :D

Agree completely. Politics and sucking around might get you there. You aren't going to <b>stay</b> there though unless you prove that you can actually do the job. I've seen too many "stars" flame out completely because they were pushed way too fast, and weren't up to the level that they were being assigned to. They got themselves into a situation that their experience(and maturity in some cases) hadn't prepared them for, and they just weren't up to the task. Assignors( and coaches, AD's, etc) have a long memory.

I think another point that needs to be made is that "Politics" is not always about someone kissing up. Sometimes "Politics" involves going to meetings regularly, helping out at a camp or association function or simply working with the right veteran that sees something positive in you. I know I have benefited from the fact I dedicate so much time to many of my associations and do things that others are not willing to do. I offered my services to give presentations and run for office in associations when others choose to not do anything. The fact that I am a perceived as a decent official helps, but when you prove you can work you get asked even more to help out because you have some credibility. In one association we created a mentor program and I am the only official that has been involved in the mentor program as a mentor every year the program has been active. I did not know this until recently, but guys like me are going to be considered for things that the equally qualified veteran may never get consideration for because they never take a leadership role. I even have been helping a guy this past year that one of my mentors asked me to help when this official moved to this area. I have become good friends with this guy not because he kissed my ***, but because he wants to learn, get better and constantly calls me for advice and wants to get better. All I have done is share what I know about officiating and point him in the right direction, he has done the rest and it is paying off for him.

I think sometimes we need to look in the mirror when we complain that we did not get opportunities. I have not gotten all the opportunities I feel I should have and I am sure some have some political consequences to the lack of those opportunities. But all I can do is continue to work hard and do what I have been doing. I feel if it is in the cards, I will get there. I feel that God always has a plan and just because it does not happen my way it does not mean I will not be happy with the results.

Peace

IMO, what Tomegun and Jurassic and Rut just shared is dead on. Dead on. There is so much to being a top official than just being able to recognize a violation or a foul. So much more than just what happens between the lines.

I hope that my post did not give the impression that I thought "playing politics" was just (or more) important the being a good official and working to improve. You definetly need to know the rules, mechanics and how to apply the rules. You need to always conduct yourself professionally and be physically prepared to officiate the games.

However, I do firmly believe that what camps you select is important. Of course you need to select camps appropriate for you current officiating skill level and that will help you get better and reach you ultimate goals (whatever they may be). But you need to keep in mind the next step on your ladder to that goal. I hope someday to make it to college ball (probably not D1 as I started a little late). However, I know (right now) that I need to focus on my HS game and getting the better games locally. I can honestly say to myself that I am not ready to try to make the jump. Therefore, I would be better served finding a good camp where the local people that need to see more of my work will be in attendance than go to a camp 1,000 miles away because. All things considered, I will probably get more bang for my camp dollars by having them see me. Now if you can make both that is even better.

In the same light, it is human nature to help those who make the effort and who you know and like. That is why I said to get involved locally. Even if you have to almost force your way in. Part of that, like it or not, is the smoozing factor. Hypothetical scenario...an assignor has a need for an official and decides to "give someone a shot". There are two officials who he feels are ready...one he has never spoken with and who rarely offers his services for things off the floor and one that he sees active all the time and has had the opportunity to get to know personally. Who do you think he is going to choose?

Like Jurassic said, you are not going to stay unless you can prove yourself. But you cannot prove yourself until you get the shot. Getting that shot may very well require some off court effort that others call sucking up. I couldn't care less what an official who is not working to improve says about how I got the opportunity. If I conducted myself professionally and ethically I will sleep well.

I just want to echo. Your best is your best if you are satisfied with what you are doing.*Be Happy*:)

And very little of it is a science. Much of it is an art. It's stuff that you can't write down and have a recipie for other to follow to success.

If you want a (regular) job, do you think anyone is going to hire you without first meeting you? I would expect assignors to take a similar position. Of course this does not apply with every game or every assignment, but most people want to know something about you before they give you game.

Oh please, I know many officials that never got a shot and they kissed up or at the very least tried to. And those individuals in some cases hurt their future opportunities in the process. Did it ever occur to you that some people just cannot officiate and will never get certain opportunities?

Peace

Thanks Mark! I'm TOTALLY Happy!:D

If you recount only the precincts that were strongly democratic and were more like to find missed democratic votes, no. But if you reo****ed all the state, yes.

Gore only wanted to recount the votes in places where he thought it would favor him....not a general recount where they might also find votes that would benefit Bush in a recount. I've yet to understand how anyone can think that a selective partisan recount could be anything close to fair or just.

Again, the candidate the Dems put up against him was unacceptable to enough people.

Personally, I think that GWBush is overall the weakest/poorest president we've had since Carter. In that timeframe, I think that Reagan is 1st and Clinton is 2nd (even though he left the ecomomy in a tailspin in his last 9-12 months....and not rebound for Bush, who was left with most of the blame when he couldn't recover from the mess he was left with) and G.Bush was 3rd.

If Gore had won instead, he would have likely been in the bottom spot. He was no match for Reagon or Clinton...he may or may not have beat out the first Bush, hard to say without him actually winning.

Kerry, had he won, may have ultimately slipped in above GW Bush (that was not an obvious thing...he had a lot of weaknesses too) but he was never going to come close to either Reagan or Clinton....maybe would have been a match for G. Bush.

When both parties have poorer candidates, you've got little choice but to get a lessor president.

I have come to realize that there are two aspects to an officiating career: improvement and advancement.

Both are important. Both have to be managed. Improvement has a tendency to positively impact advancement. But improvement on its own will not guarantee advancement.

There are things you must actively pursue to improve: camps, evaluations, practice, study, watching film, working lots of games, etc. We all know what these things are, and if we're serious, we do them.

As for advancement, there are things we must actively pursue here too. They include being seen, becoming known to the people who make decisions, and generally managing our own image. Every area is different, so it's important to learn what the path to advancement is for your area. Then get on that path and start walking.

Be genuine. Be patient. Be happy for others when they move up. Be ready. Be humble. Be grateful.

Where's Teddy Roosevelt when you really need him?

http://www.bartleby.com/51/11.gif

Dead.

Rut, I think what you described above is more an example of leadership and taking an active role than politics.

Your substance and integrity will always become obvious to those who also have substance and integrity. When you love the game, and I think many people on this board do, it shows.

Look for the person who is not getting any better, but always wants their face to be in the place. Look at the official who always complains but doesn't want to do anything. Look at the official who always speaks before they think. It will become obvious when someone is into politics.

I've seen this everywhere I've lived. Female officials with 3-4 years experience are jumping ahead of eminently qualified officials with 15+ years experience and working state tournaments. I just wish state and local associations would come out and say "that's the way it is" rather than pretend it's anything but. Please don't tell me that the best officials are being picked when we know that other factors have trumped ability and experience.

Everywhere I have been they say "that is the way it is." As a matter of fact tonight an assignor was talking about how he put 3 women on a varsity game and the schools involved loved it.

Peace

Politics, on some level, plays a role in everything that we do, from our normal jobs to this avocation. Simply put, it is easier for someone in a position in power to hire or select a commodity that is better known than it is to take a chance on someone. Assignors don't want phone calls and it is much easier for coaches and administrators to accept the veteran, a known commodity, on a big game. Therefore, it is the more prudent move, in many cases for the assignor. There is merit to assigning the veterans, they've been through the wars and proven that they can handle them. As a younger official, I realize that, and each year I work, I become a more known, reliable commodity.

In terms of moving up, the one thing that you can control is you. Do your best, study yourself and learn from others. Look at tape and be your own harshest critic. Try to understand what you need to do to get to the next level by watching the people who are already there. Figure out what the assignor wants. These are all things you can control. Also, understand your situation and do your best to put yourself in the best possible situation. If your association as a rule assigns years ahead and nobody sniffs a varsity game until 7 years in, understand that. If you want it bad enough, move to another area, otherwise accept this 7 year period as a fact of life. Ultimately, if you are flexible and want it enough, you can control your situation.

Another great point that others have made here is that when you move up, be ready to officiate at the next level. There's nothing worse than not being ready at the next level and flaming out. Also, consider the possibility that your advancement may not being hindered by an assignor, but the assignor is helping you out by making sure you're ready for the big assignment when it comes.