Now I'm confused. Recently someone here on the board mentioned that there is no such foul as "over the back." I see this called in virtually every game. What should my response be to offcials who make this call?

Thanks!

coachgrd,
I think everyone on the board agrees that there is no "over the back" foul. This term should be reserved for use by fans and parents of 4th graders.

Some officials may call a foul with <u>no contact</u> when the player "behind" reaches into the vertical space of an opponent and steals a rebound. To that official you could ask : "Where was the contact?"

As you know, if there is no contact, then there is no foul.
mick

To add to Mick's great explanation, there could be illegal contact. The rebounding player moved into and displaced the player, while going in the vertical space of the opponent that would be a pushing foul.

If the opponent jump up vertically and made contact with the arms that would be an illegal use of hands, or a block.

Some officials will use the verbalization of "over the back" as a catch all to these situations. It isn't approved as a mechanic in NFHS, but it is used unfortunately.

If I ask them where was the contact and they try to T me up, can I use you as a reference Mick?

"Over the back" is what we usually refer to as "coachspeak." You just proved our point. :)

Certainly a player can foul from behind on a rebound. But the foul is for pushing, not fo being "over the back." "Over the back" is not found in the rulebook. Neither is "reaching" but that's another conversation.

There's nothing illegal about a player jumping from behind and grabbing a rebound over an opponent, as long as the opponent isn't dislodged or pushed. Even if there's contact, it's not a foul if both players stay within their vertical plane. Sometimes there is enough contact to call a foul but if the rebounder is still able to rebound the ball and is not placed at a disadvantage, then we do not call a foul.

That hope that helps

Go for it. But tell 'em Tony taught me.

I've noticed that in the lower grades, calling a push (contact from behind / over the back) is tough because they are all the same height and all gang rebound. The taller kids who can jump make it much easier to see the illegal contact.

I love it when a tall player actually jumps and reaches over the vertically challenged opponent and grabs a board....the howler monkees go "bananas" begging for "over the back"....get it...bananas.....monkees.....funny....you're not laughing...nevermind

Larks

<b> love it when a tall player actually jumps and reaches over the vertically challenged opponent and grabs a board....the howler monkees go "bananas" begging for "over the back"....get it..bananas... ..monkees... ..funny.. ..you're not laughing. ..nevermind

Larks</b>

In my games, the coaches are usually going ape-sh$&

Z

Why do you think they used to refer to basketball players as "cagers"?

Actually, this is true. Back in the early part of the 20th century, many games were actually played inside a wire cage (not on top, just the sides). That way, the ball never went OOB. Players would wind up with indentation marks all over their arms after the game.

You may think I am making this up, but I am not. Read anything on the history of basketball in the US and you will see that the term "cagers" was routinely used in newspaper stories well into the 1960s, even though the cages went away many years before.

Personally, I have never seen a match inside a cage (other than WWF), but I do remember the center jump after every basket. :)

here we go. I definitely enjoy the funnies. Now Mark, You remember jump ball after each made basket! WOW How long ago has that been.

Geez Mark,
A jump after every basket. I know I am new to the game but I can't ever remember even SEEING that.

How old are you? Three days older than dirt?

Mark
Cage and cager were used in my hometown paper all the way through 1980 when I left (may still be using it for all I know!). Never understood why they used the term, but I always knew what sport or players they were referring to.

Diving into somebody in the second row is much better than hitting the walls of the cage. Hope your welts are gone!

Good lord,Mark,I started in 1959 and I can't remember that.Of course,there's a lot of things from 1959 that I can't remember.:D:Of course,there's a lot of things from 1959 that I don't want to remember!:D:

Thanks for that Mark. :)
mick

Guys, I was just kidding about seeing the center jump after each basket. I'm old, but not quite that old. At least that's what my old buddy, Dr. Naismith used to tell me. ;)

Actually, I started following basketball in the late 1950s when I used to watch the NBA on ABC (yes, they were on ABC in those days). Chris Schenkel did the play by play and Jack Twyman did the commentary. It seemed like Boston was on every Sunday playing either Philadelphia or Baltimore.

That's back in the days when watching the NBA was the same as watching real basketball.

Gee - I wonder what Oscar Robertson thinks about Rasheed "Captain Pre-school" Wallace?

[Edited by Mark Padgett on Jan 22nd, 2002 at 04:22 PM]

Mark, did you get your basketball start as one of the guys who retrieved the ball from the peach basket after every score? :D

I was reading in a book that Joe Naismith (sp?) invented the game of basketball, just thought this was interesting, wonder if he knew what the effects of this would be, that it would be so popular. Just thought it fit well w/ the peach basket response to this post.

[Edited by Doug on Jan 22nd, 2002 at 07:37 PM]

No. I started playing before peaches were invented. Many of you do not realize it, but the first basketballs were made of pterodactyl hide. Referees would paint stripes on their bodies with berry juice and the penalty for a technical foul was being hit on the head with a club (twice in NF). The first organized game ever played was between "The Guys From Og's Cave" and "The Guys From The Other Side Of The Glacier." Both teams wore "Air Og's". There was no final score because no one could understand the concept of counting. However, after the game, we all went to Starbucks, which was quite new at the time.

OK, I'll stop now.

You mean James Naismith?

On a side note, today's coaches are directly descended from these two teams. By some oddity, none of the members of these families have evolved. :p

(In fact, some of the "howler monkeys" have actually de-evolved.) (Even though there's no such thing.)

the thing i was reading says joe, but I looked in other sources and you're right, it is james.

Could have been worse; you could have called him Joe Namath!!

information
 

Basketball is one of the most popular team sports in the world. Skill, not strength and speed, is the key. People of all ages play the game in school gyms, local men’s and women’s clubs or on outdoor concrete courts located in parks, in backyards or on driveways. Those with physical disabilities play wheelchair basketball. Men and women play the game professionally, some earning millions of dollars a year. This is certainly a far cry from James Naismith’s expectations when he nailed two peach baskets on opposite walls of a school gymnasium.


Canadian James Naismith was born in Almonte, Ontario, and was a graduate of McGill university and the Presbyterian Theological College. In 1891 one of the various courses assigned him teaching at the International Young Men’s Christian Training College in Springfield, Massachusetts, was physical education. Summer was over and he

You May Be Owed
Unclaimed Money
To Find Out, Enter Your Last Name Here:

needed a way to keep a group of bored, trouble-making young men interested in their gym class. In those days phys-ed consisted of callisthenics, gymnastics and repetitive drills. Naismith, who was a true advocate of the adage, “healthy body, healthy mind”, was quite determined to get the young men in his class actively interested in

sports by coming up with a new indoor game for them to play.


At first he tried modifying aspects of soccer, lacrosse and football,but without success. He sat down and analysed what he would like to see in an indoor sport. Since he wanted no out-and-out rough-housing on the hardwood floor, he decided using a large ball about the size of a soccer ball would work. Next he decided that players would not be allowed the run with the ball, and that an elevated goal would make the game that much more challenging.


By December 21, 1891, Naismith had compiled a rough list of 13 basic rules, posted them on the school bulletin board and with the assistance of the janitor, nailed two peach baskets on opposite ends of the gymnasium. He even managed to convince the janitor to climb a ladder and retrieve the ball each time a player successfully landed it in a peach basket.


Students loved the game and it wasn’t long before schools and colleges across the country caught basketball fever and introduced the game to their own institutions. The last thing Naismith did was invent a name for his wildly successful game. A few of his students suggested Naismith-ball, but he decided that would never work and they eventually settled on basketball.


One of the greatest stories in basketball history is that of a Canadian women’s team called the “Grads”. The Edmonton Commercial Graduates were champions of the game from 1915-1940. Arenas all around the world were jammed when these six women came to play. During the years they ruled the courts they won an incredible 502 out of the 522 games they played. They claimed the title of world champions in a surprise victory over the Cleveland Favorite-Knits, then were North American Champions from 1923 - 1940. They played

in 4 Olympics winning all their games. The Grads overall winning average was calculated at an amazing 96%. These ladies greatest motivation was simply the pure love ofbasketball. As James Naismith stated, “they are the finest team that ever stepped out on a floor”.


James Naismith was eventually inducted into the Springfield Basketball Hall of Fame and received various other accolades for his achievement. A man of strong religious principles and one who loved sports, he could have never have envisioned what he gave to the world by inventing his simple game called basketball.

What has any of this got to do with "over the back?" :D

Nothing; isn't that the point.

But, to get back to OTB . . . I've been trying the following semi-Davism lately:

A1 goes over B1 to grab a rebound but there is not enough contact for a foul.
Player/Captain:"Over the back, ref!"
Me:"No such thing."
P:"What do you mean, 'no such thing?' It's a foul!!!"
M:"Find it in the rule book and I'll pay you ten dollars."

Re: information
 

Mark --

Does this guy work for Spitz, too?!

I'm glad they didn't name it Naismithball. Can you imagine on a foul on a made basket? "Count the Naismith"

Re: Re: information
 

No, he just spits.

And they will be again next season, Mark. ABC and ESPN have part of the new NBA contract starting next season. Apparently, Disney had $6 billion it didn't need, or some ridiculous amount.

The UMASS-Amherst teams played in a gym that was officially called the "Curry-Hicks Cage" until Calipari convinced them to build Mullins Arena about 10 years ago. Just thought I'd share :)

Chuck