NBA Refs Off the Hook?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Stern knew about problems with this guy before the FBI ever walked in to his office.

He knew about problems with his neighbor and those types of things, but I haven't heard that the gambling was known.

I do think his statement, if substantiated by polygraph or readily accessible physical evidence, should be cause for Stern to launch an in-depth investigation ans "let the cards fall where they will".

I personally feel that Donaghy's statements should have no influence over Stern's actions whatsoever. If the FBI has some other evidence against specific officials, Stern will see it and it should be investigated. Donaghy's input, in my mind, is worthless because it will all be self-serving. But what I think should happen obviously is irrelevant to the NBA office.

Additionally, I think any refs caught casino gambling will get a slap on the wrist with a "stern" warning not to do it again.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I personally feel that Donaghy's statements should have no influence over Stern's actions whatsoever. If the FBI has some other evidence against specific officials, Stern will see it and it should be investigated. Donaghy's input, in my mind, is worthless because it will all be self-serving. But what I think should happen obviously is irrelevant to the NBA office.

.

You can disagree all you want but clearly you do not work on this side of the street. And on this side of the street, you have to deal with filth to clean up the filth.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TXMike

You can disagree all you want but clearly you do not work on this side of the street. And on this side of the street, you have to deal with filth to clean up the filth.

?????

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by TXMike

You can disagree all you want but clearly you do not work on this side of the street. And on this side of the street, you have to deal with filth to clean up the filth.

Apparently, Mike is channeling Old School.

What exactly do you suggest in the handling of this matter? You want Stern to immediately reprimand/suspend/fire every official that Donaghy names, regardless of evidence to back up the claims? If there is evidence produced by the FBI or by the NBA, then I have no doubt that officials will be reprimanded. But they're not going to be reprimanded on Donaghy's say-so, and they shouldn't be.

Do you want officials fired for casino gambling, which is contrary to their collective bargaining agreement but otherwise legal? Stern would clearly be within his rights to do that, but I don't think he will. That's just my guess. Those officials will be reprimanded, maybe fined, but (if there really are 20 of them) there are too many to simply let all of them go. They'd have to immediately replace a full third of their work force. Not a pleasant thought for Nunn and Stern.

So how would you clean up the filth on your side of the street?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So how would you clean up the filth on your side of the street?

If you can make the other side of the street look even dirtier, then your side looks cleaner. It's a lot easier than actually cleaning up your side of the street.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you can make the other side of the street look even dirtier, then your side looks cleaner. It's a lot easier than actually cleaning up your side of the street.

I guess I kind of see what you're saying here, Bob. But my question to Mike remains. If you don't like Stern's approach, how would you handle the situation differently?

I think it's a legitimate question.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I guess I kind of see what you're saying here, Bob. But my question to Mike remains. If you don't like Stern's approach, how would you handle the situation differently?

I think it's a legitimate question.

But one that can't be answered without having access to all of Stern's information. Well, not without guessing anyway. Right, Dan?

[Odd Duck]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Apparently, Mike is channeling Old School.

What exactly do you suggest in the handling of this matter? You want Stern to immediately reprimand/suspend/fire every official that Donaghy names, regardless of evidence to back up the claims? If there is evidence produced by the FBI or by the NBA, then I have no doubt that officials will be reprimanded. But they're not going to be reprimanded on Donaghy's say-so, and they shouldn't be.

Do you want officials fired for casino gambling, which is contrary to their collective bargaining agreement but otherwise legal? Stern would clearly be within his rights to do that, but I don't think he will. That's just my guess. Those officials will be reprimanded, maybe fined, but (if there really are 20 of them) there are too many to simply let all of them go. They'd have to immediately replace a full third of their work force. Not a pleasant thought for Nunn and Stern.

So how would you clean up the filth on your side of the street?

You may not be able to fire all of them at the same time but you can put ALL of them on "probation" and fire any on the spot that violate the collective bargaining agreement again. I would also not give any of those officials a play-off assignment during their probationary period. If, when the play-offs roll around, they complain about being on the outside looking in...simply tell them they should be thankful they still have a job. If some choose to quit, let them.

Also, by saying you cannot afford to fire them all you are, in a way, saying that currently you cannot find 20 officials with the skills necessary to work in the NBA...personally, i find that hard to believe. Would the level of officiating decline...probably. However both teams have the same set of officials...in theroy the playing surface is level. The quality of officiating may not be the same from game to game...but I doubt you have that now.

While I think the rule that officials cannot gamble in a legal casino may be foolish it is a rule with which they all agreed. If suspended or put on probation...shut up, take you lumps, learn from the "mistake" and move on.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Odd Duck

You may not be able to fire all of them at the same time but you can put ALL of them on "probation" and fire any on the spot that violate the collective bargaining agreement again.

I agree with that completely. In fact, I may have mentioned quite similar earlier in this thread: "Additionally, I think any refs caught casino gambling will get a slap on the wrist with a "stern" warning not to do it again."

I would also not give any of those officials a play-off assignment during their probationary period.

Possible, but the playoff officiating is already under so much scrutiny that I don't think they can afford to use "lower tier" officials.

Also, by saying you cannot afford to fire them all you are, in a way, saying that currently you cannot find 20 officials with the skills necessary to work in the NBA...

Not exactly, but close enough.

Would the level of officiating decline...probably.

And you agree with me!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Odd Duck

You may not be able to fire all of them at the same time but you can put ALL of them on "probation" and fire any on the spot that violate the collective bargaining agreement again.

So you're going to take that action simply because Tim Donaghy says they gambled?

Sorry but that's .

Thank goodness you aren't the commissioner of any major professional sports league.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Do you want officials fired for casino gambling, which is contrary to their collective bargaining agreement but otherwise legal? Stern would clearly be within his rights to do that, but I don't think he will. That's just my guess. Those officials will be reprimanded, maybe fined, but (if there really are 20 of them) there are too many to simply let all of them go. They'd have to immediately replace a full third of their work force. Not a pleasant thought for Nunn and Stern.

So Scrappy are you saying that if maybe 1, or 2 or even 3 officials had violated the gambling clause then Stern could easily fire them? But he won't fire 20 because it's just not practical?

And that's an example of NOT hiding your head in the sand? Puh-leeze.

btw, IMO Stern can't fire 20 officials for violating the gambling clauses in their contract because it would be a PR nightmare for the league. Period.

[Odd Duck]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So Scrappy are you saying that if maybe 1, or 2 or even 3 officials had violated the gambling clause then Stern could easily fire them? But he won't fire 20 because it's just not practical?

And that's an example of NOT hiding your head in the sand? Puh-leeze.

btw, IMO Stern can't fire 20 officials for violating the gambling clauses in their contract because it would be a PR nightmare for the league. Period.

I disagree...a good "spin doctor" could sell that. Telling your customers that you are doing everything necessary to ensure that the officials assigned to the game are abiding by all the necessary codes of conduct and ethics would not be a nightmare. You may have some complaints early on related to call selection and overall quality but the fans would get past that...and the players should be talented enough to adjust.

Besides...the league is already dealing with a PR problem. There is something to be said for dealing with all the issues at once. It is not always the best approach...but not always the wrong approach either.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So Scrappy are you saying that if maybe 1, or 2 or even 3 officials had violated the gambling clause then Stern could easily fire them? But he won't fire 20 because it's just not practical?

And that's an example of NOT hiding your head in the sand? Puh-leeze.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying and I guess I didn't really think of it as hiding your head in the sand. I think of "hiding your head in the sand" as ignoring a problem or pretending it doesn't exist. He's not doing that. He's got a problem and he knows it. But firing a third of your staff is probably not the best way to solve that problem, is it? It's probably better to show that you're serious -- by fining everybody or suspending the worst offenders -- and then let everyone know that the consequences will be worse if it happens again. JMO.

btw, IMO Stern can't fire 20 officials for violating the gambling clauses in their contract because it would be a PR nightmare for the league. Period.

You mean it isn't already a PR nightmare for the league? Come on.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You mean it isn't already a PR nightmare for the league? Come on.

Which nightmare headline do you think the league prefers:

"One NBA Official Fired In Gambling Probe"

or

"20 NBA Officials Fired In Gambling Probe"

[Odd Duck]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Which nightmare headline do you think the league prefers:

"One NBA Official Fired In Gambling Probe"

or

"20 NBA Officials Fired In Gambling Probe"

This one sounds bad also:

"NBA Refuses To Fire Officials For Ethics Violations"

Phrase your second this way...

"NBA Comes Down Hard on Ethics Violations"

...all in how you spin it.