college womens, i'm trail a few feet from the coach. His player is holding the ball. The girl guarding his player is in front of her. The coach is standing on sideline right next to them. All of a sudden he yells (real loud) "get your hands off", and the def. player puts her hand down. This all happened quickly. His player gets the ball, the def. player puts her hand( or fore arm ) on her and he yells. The ball gets passed. Now i'm next to him and i say coach she can do that. He didn't like that answer. Yells at me saying she can't, not when she is holding the ball. So i drop it until another trip when i'm standing next to him. I let him know the def. can measure up. Question, is the coach allowed to yell at the opponent?

Was the yelling at the opposing player an unsportsmanlike act?

If your answer is yes...you know the rule.

I would probably warn the coach of his actions and remind him that "he knows the rule" for unsportsmanlike conduct. ;)

Dan

I think an appropriate comment to the coach at that point would have been, "We'll call the game, coach."

If that fails, puke on his shoes.

Or in a Tarzan-like voice:

"Me Ref. You coach. Tweet......Technical!"

Mark,

I always get some cocky response, after I say that! Usually to coaches who appear to want a technical... still haven't figured that one out:)

Doug/Mark,

I agree. I find this comment usually results in:
"Why don't you then?",
"that'd be nice", or
"Why start now"

These comments then result in a T, and everyone is unhappy.

This posting is a great example of why Barb Jacobs should be ashamed of herself for allowing an NBA/WNBA rule into the NCAA Women's Rules. Why does B1 have to deliberately touch A1 who has control of the ball? A1 is holding the ball and just standing and B1 has to touch A1. This is the type of nonsense rules that just promotes rough play. B1 does not need to touch A1 because A1 is standing right in front of her. A1 takes exception to being touched and slaps B1's hand away. You can see where I am going with this.

By the way Bart, girls play at high school basketball and women play college basketball. As someone, who officiated his first women's college game in November 1974, at the tender age of 23, all of today's players in any women's game I officiate are girls, but they are still women.

mark
Good points. What I don't understand is why anyone at a high of a level needs to touch the other player to "measure up?" Of coursethe other side is, the higher the level, the more contact is required before a highly skilled player is disadvantaged.

Mark --

Do you have an "in" with Barb? I ask because of a ruling she apparently / allegedly gave on the following play:

A1 holds the ball in A's backcourt. A1 passes the ball to A2 who is standing in A's front court. A2 isn[t looking at the ball. The ball hits A2 and bounds to A's backcourt where Ax recovers the ball.

Now, I'm sure all of us here would blow the whistle for a backcourt violation. Apparently, though, Barb ruled that this was not a violation because there was no control in the front court. (!?)

If you have an "in" with Barb, could you either (or both) confirm the ruling and help get the right ruling made.

Thanks.

Bob, can she back this up by the rules? I have to believe she made a mistake.

It is an awful interpretation unless college women have a different rule in which player control must occur in front court for ball to be front court. They do have a no ten seconds rule, so you don't need to be concerned with dropping the count when the ball went front court and hit the player - is the b/c rule different as well?

I think this is a definate screw-up. The backcourt violation rule is the same for men and women's NCAA. In fact, NCAA rules quite clearly state that the touching in FC/BC happens whether the touch is voluntary or involuntary (9-11-2).

Why is it that the best players in the world get to make illegal contact to play the game. It seems to me that the better the player the less illegal contact so be required of them to play the game. Just a wild and wacky concept that I must be the only one has ever thought of.

How did this thread change to a discussion about a backcourt violation?

Blame Bob J. :D

Chuck

One reason is that all players are faster and more powerful. Players will approach each other with greater strength and speed, and therefore the level of contact is greater in general throughout the game. And it is not conact that you can say is due to one player or another frequently. Now the reaching out and touching someone contact is not explainable by this speed and power concept, but I guess the general mindset is that much greater levels of contact are clearly incidental, so don't blow the whistle on a touch foul.

Coach, you are giving excuses for players to play out of control instead of in control. Just because a player is bigger and stronger is no excuse for excess contact. The more skilled the player the less illegal contact there should be.

There is contact all the time, at all levels, oh, but we have had this conversation before. At a high level, you have two powerful quick people making very hard contact without any clear player at fault. This cannot and should not be called a foul. I am not making excuses for it, I am explaining a feature of high level play that you see watching any college game. As for the touch contact that is clearly one player's fault, officials are less likely to punish that when there is a lot of unpunishable contact which goes on in the same game. And their bosses agree with that philosophy, and the resulting basketball games are terrific.

I really enjoyed the Duke-Maryland game last night (til I fell asleep from a long week!), and it was very physical, but such great basketball - especially the first half.