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-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Michigan joins the rest of us (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/37595-michigan-joins-rest-us.html)

JRutledge Tue Aug 21, 2007 05:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
Great - that's all we need - a third group of teams. Does this mean all the schools are going to have to build more locker rooms? :confused:

Also - are we now going to have "Joan Diebler" references?


http://www.teamaustralia.com.au/user...SEX-symbol.gif
Something told me this was coming. :D

Peace

Mark Padgett Tue Aug 21, 2007 06:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Something told me this was coming. :D

Peace
You know me too well, buddy. I guess us Chicago boys can read each other's minds - such as they are. BTW - I think you said you grew up in "rural" Illinois. What HS did you attend? I went to Bloom in Chicago Heights. Our two most famous alumni (besides me, of course) are author and former major league World Series winner Jim Bouton and sports impresario Jerry Colangelo.

Camron Rust Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP

If Michigan was so far behind the times, why are we in the top 5 for girls scholarships in the country for those 2 sports? Maybe all the other states are doing it wrong if all HS sports is about scholarships and revenue....
Several Factors come to mind:
  1. Perhaps because that is approximately your position in number of people in the state (actually #8 in 2000).
  2. Some of the larger states have better outdoor climates and probably lose participants to other activities that aren't viable in Michigan
Michigan's position in scholarship rankings probably has very little to do with the season it was played in.

JRutledge Wed Aug 22, 2007 01:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
You know me too well, buddy. I guess us Chicago boys can read each other's minds - such as they are. BTW - I think you said you grew up in "rural" Illinois. What HS did you attend? I went to Bloom in Chicago Heights. Our two most famous alumni (besides me, of course) are author and former major league World Series winner Jim Bouton and sports impresario Jerry Colangelo.
I attended Macomb High School. We were called the Bombers because an alumnus was in the plane that dropped the Atomic Bomb (or one of) on Japan in WWII.

The college that I attended is the only one named the Leathernecks after the Marine Corp.

Now you are from the Washington area. A former Seattle Mariner was from my HS. Phil Bradley.

Peace

Jimgolf Wed Aug 22, 2007 09:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust
Michigan's position in scholarship rankings probably has very little to do with the season it was played in.
But maybe the number of scholarships were higher because coaches had no other games to scout, since Michigan was the only state playing girls basketball or volleyball at those times. Now, the coaches will have to allocate their time among the various states. Maybe the number of scholarships will go down.

BTW, I have no stake in this and I don't really care when they play. I just think the state association should be able to set their own schedules without the courts' interference. Imagine if there was a court ruling that required you to work only girls basketball games, or that you couldn't turn down any games assigned to you.

JRutledge Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimgolf
BTW, I have no stake in this and I don't really care when they play. I just think the state association should be able to set their own schedules without the courts' interference. Imagine if there was a court ruling that required you to work only girls basketball games, or that you couldn't turn down any games assigned to you.
You can imagine, but it is not the same thing. A state association is a tax payer funded institution. Officials work as independent contactors. That means that if we do not like the conditions or the circumstances, we do not have to work under any circumstances. That also means that the people who hire us do not have to provide certain accommodations. We are not air traffic controllers.

Peace

Mark Padgett Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I attended Macomb High School. We were called the Bombers because an alumnus was in the plane that dropped the Atomic Bomb (or one of) on Japan in WWII.

The college that I attended is the only one named the Leathernecks after the Marine Corp.

Now you are from the Washington area. A former Seattle Mariner was from my HS. Phil Bradley.

Peace
Thanks for the info. I see you went to Western Illinois. I had a girlfriend who went there (not you, of course). I went to Northern Illinois.

Also, please note that Oregonians do not consider themselves as being from (or in) the Washington area. In fact, when the Seahawks and Mariners were formed, there was a lot of resentment in this state when those teams assumed that fans in the Portland area would "automatically" support them because they were from the Pacific Northwest. Even now, there are probably more 49er fans around here than Seahawk fans (although the gap is getting smaller due to the Seahawks recent success) and tons of baseball fans support the Bay area teams, mostly the Giants.

Of course I am a White Sox and Bears fan.


http://www.garrett.edu/images/Chicag...-Sox-logo1.gif http://www.sportslogos.net/images/Fo...FL/CHI_364.gif

mick Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
A state association is a tax payer funded institution. Officials work as independent contactors. That means that if we do not like the conditions or the circumstances, we do not have to work under any circumstances. That also means that the people who hire us do not have to provide certain accommodations. We are not air traffic controllers.

Peace
Au contraire.

"A private, non-profit corporation, the MHSAA receives no tax dollars from the state of Michigan or the federal government. Its membership, made up of public, private and parochial schools, pay no membership dues or tournament entry fees — the only one of two such associations nationally to not accept membership dues or tournament entry fees from schools." - from mhsaa.com

JRutledge Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:16pm
Public schools are members if the MHSAA right? If that is the case and an organization that is made up of public schools (who receive tax money to function), the activities of the MHSAA is part of tax base that funds them. And if I am not mistaken, I saw the basketball championships held on Michigan State's campus. That is a publicly funded university and that means the MHSAA does not do things without public institutions.

In my state the IHSA currently does not take dues from the members, but they run tournaments and use public facilities to run those tournaments. If the state legislature wanted to take some legal action against them for discrimination and other legal codes, they would have a legal basis (and this almost happen over a multiplier issue last year). It does not mean that would ever happen, but they could do that.

Peace

mick Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Public schools are members if the MHSAA right? If that is the case and an organization that is made up of public schools (who receive tax money to function), the activities of the MHSAA is part of tax base that funds them. And if I am not mistaken, I saw the basketball championships held on Michigan State's campus. That is a publicly funded university and that means the MHSAA does not do things without public institutions.

In my state the IHSA currently does not take dues from the members, but they run tournaments and use public facilities to run those tournaments. If the state legislature wanted to take some legal action against them for discrimination and other legal codes, they would have a legal basis (and this almost happen over a multiplier issue last year). It does not mean that would ever happen, but they could do that.

Peace
Just sayin', Rut,
Breaking laws is one thing.
Being taxpayer funded is quite another. ;)

JRutledge Wed Aug 22, 2007 01:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
Just sayin', Rut,
Breaking laws is one thing.
Being taxpayer funded is quite another. ;)
Maybe I should not have used "taxpayer funded." If an organization is benefiting from things tax payers fund, then they their actions are subjected to any state court even if all their money is not coming from the tax payers directly. So if they are using public buildings and public organizations to make up a group, they are subject to court decisions and state laws.

Guess what, the courts made a decision so their must be some jurisdiction over the MHSAA. ;)

Peace

mick Wed Aug 22, 2007 01:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Maybe I should not have used "taxpayer funded." If an organization is benefiting from things tax payers fund, then they their actions are subjected to any state court even if all their money is not coming from the tax payers directly. So if they are using public buildings and public organizations to make up a group, they are subject to court decisions and state laws.

Guess what, the courts made a decision so their must be some jurisdiction over the MHSAA. ;)

Peace
Well, I guess that (being subject to court decisions and state laws) holds pretty much true for anyone in Michigan without diplomatic immunity, and maybe some of them, too.

Mark Dexter Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
Well, I guess that (being subject to court decisions and state laws) holds pretty much true for anyone in Michigan without diplomatic immunity, and maybe some of them, too.
There might be some exceptions for all of you in the UP. :p

RookieDude Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I attended Macomb High School. We were called the Bombers because an alumnus was in the plane that dropped the Atomic Bomb (or one of) on Japan in WWII.
Interesting JRut....one of the High Schools, here in the Tri-Cities, is called the Bombers. (Richland Bombers) The WWII Atomic Bomb was assembled at the nearby Hanford Federal Nuclear Reservation.


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