Donaghy pleads guilty
 

Didn't see a thread yet on this, so....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2975532

:(

Interesting that he isn't pleading guilty to actually fixing games in any way shape or form. Conspiracy to commit wire fraud? Must be for the way he took his payments and made bets or something. That one makes me curious. The other charge is for giving information out, not for fixing games. I wonder if we'll ever get answers to whether and how he may have affected point spreads or over/unders.

Three things:
1. These are FEDERAL charges, so the government's authority comes under the interstate commerce clause. Hence, you see charges such as wire fraud and transmitting across state lines.

2. The federal prosecutors charge people with what they can PROVE, not necessarily with what they may also be guilty of doing. When they have something clear cut which is going to put someone away, their attitude is that is good enough. Think back to what they finally pinned on Al Capone--tax evasion.

3. This is a plea BARGAIN. So each side is making some concessions here. In return the government is getting a conviction without much work in court, and the individual (and the NBA) is saving some face by picking to exactly which charges he stipulates. Certain words may sound better or worse.
For example, "fixing games" has a very negative connotation, while "wire fraud" is rather mundane.

I see in the news tonite here in NZ that he could get up to 25 years in jail; is it that serious a charge? cheers!

I agree with all three counts. My point, however, is that I don't know that the NBA is going to be able to get much closure out of this plea bargain. Neither of the actual charges is nearly as damaging to the NBA as the allegations that have come out in the press, so it seems there will not be any resolution of the questions that actually give the game a head ache.

25 years for wire fraud. Meanwhile,

"(CNN) -- After spending a total of seven months in custody, the Tennessee woman who fatally shot her preacher husband in the back was released on Tuesday, her lawyer told CNN."

It doesn't have anything to do with this topic, but when I saw the two stories this morning, it seemed wrong to me.

Makes you wonder...

Wait til she gets custody back. :(

that TN story is RARE and an easy target for comparison with the TD story. Toss in Vick's potential plea bargin of less than 1 year of jail time and you've got 3 tough issues to rank.
FYI, TD could get up to 25 years; he won't get nearly that much time. Whether he should or shouldn't, IDK.

Welcome to justice, Canada-style. In a town 550 miles away, an elementary school principal told his mistress he wanted to be with his wife and only his wife. After several threatening e-mails, she stabbed him the groin and he died. She got two years.

Truly, would be surprised if he got more than six months. It is even possible that he will not have to serve any time in jail at all. Afterall, he is not a dangerous person and there is no threat to anyone else by his being out in society.
I expect a hefty fine, a long probation including counseling and medication, travel restrictions, and possibly a monitoring device along with either very little or no time in a federal lockup facility.

I expect that if he doesn't go into witness protection, soon he'll be sleeping with the fishes.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/ur...sopranos,0.jpg

I'd be comfortable with that.

edited to add: I'm, I was referring to Nevada's post, not Padgett's.

Especially since he made his deal before his 2 buddies and is going to testify against them, if needed.That always lowers the sentencing guidelines.

The worst punishment would be to have him ref Mark's TBA youth ball for five years. He'd have to deal with all those parents..:eek:

For once Georgetown has some good points. :p

Actually, Juulie - he probably wouldn't do too badly. As you know, the traveling rule in the NBA is about the same as ours is in 3rd grade games - practically nonexistent.

In fact, I'd probably get a real kick out of seeing Tim call a 3rd grader for a "loose ball foul", especially if it made a little girl cry. http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/BDX/BDX420/bxp139270.jpg

Naturally, this is just a theoretical conjecture at this point, and you know that is what we do. :)

PS I'm going to have to save your post as such a sentiment may never be expressed again. :D

Somebody should keep a list going, then when he is sentenced we can see who is closest.

As for me:

In custody: 18 months

House arrest: 6 months

Probation: 5 years

Maybe we should have a poll.

My vote:
- hanging
- followed by 3 years probation.

Big smile, thanks :)

Report: Donaghy set to implicate up to 20 additional NBA Referees.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293662,00.html

scandal
 

Damm,if this is true,it would make the soccer scandal seem like a office betting pool:(

"The specifics of the gambling allegations are reportedly believed to include betting in casinos, which referees are banned from doing by NBA regulations."

If all he can do is name other NBA officials that have played blackjack or craps in a casino, this is a non-story. Sure, the NBA prohibits their officials from visiting casinos, but that is not illegal and is nothing compared to the allegations that Donaghy faces.

FYI -- Donaghy's guilty plea and other information at the Smoking Gun

We shall see, as time will, indeed, tell.

P.S. Hello to The Woodlands, Brad. I was just there earlier this month visiting my brother and his family. My nephew turns 6 today and I went down for his birthday and vacation. I'm down there every couple months and will return second weekend in November for my niece's birthday. You wouldn't happen to know any big-wigs in the Conroe Independent School District, would you, particularly The Woodlands High School or College Park High School? ;)

How is it a non-story?!?!?!!?!? If he names all those refs and they admit or are proven by NBA to have violated the NBA rules don't you think the NBA would be under incredible pressure to dump them??? The story would be the huge turnover in officials in the NBA next season.

I would expect them to be fined or disciplined but not dumped. 20 refs from the NBA gone all at once? I seriously doubt it. If betting in casinos is really the only infraction. It's at least possible that Donaghy is using this plus the guilty plea to just save some shred of dignity. The NBA may blow it up big to help him save dignity, but I seriously doubt they'd really dump that many refs.

I don't recall a crisis in confidence in NBA officiating in my lifetime that matches this. It is at times like this when institutional leaders sometimes make dramatic changes in an attempt to make it seem they are truly making changes. All I am saying is that it is not beyond the pale to consider they might make such a drastic decision. It is not unheard of you know. (remember all the past labor actions by pro officials in various sports where the respective leagues went with replacements?)

Scandal
 

[quote=rainmaker]I would expect them to be fined or disciplined but not dumped. 20 refs from the NBA gone all at once? I seriously doubt it. If betting in casinos is really the only infraction. It's at least possible that Donaghy is using this plus the guilty plea to just save some shred of dignity. The NBA may blow it up big to help him save dignity, but I seriously doubt they'd really dump that many refs.



I AGREE WITH RAINMAKER,THE PRESSURE ON THE COMMISH WOULD BE TREMENDOUS,HEADS MAY ROLL,BUT NOT THAT MANY, IT WOULD ONLY WORSTEN THE NBA`S IMAGE. BUT THE PENALTIES,WOULD BE SEVERE.AND OF COURSE REMEMBER, THIS WAS NOT BETTING ON GAMES.

Also, let's wait for an investigation by the NBA to pan out. This guy may just be naming names to try to take down the ship with him. If these NBA refs really were in any casinos, there's going to be videotape of it.

Typically what happens in conspiracy cases ( at the fed level anyway), in order for someone to be give a plea bargain deal, they have to agree to a "full and truthful disclosure" and agree to be polygraphed regarding any disclosure they make. That helps keep the investigating agency from going on wild goose chases just because someone is trying to do all they can to get their exposure bargained down.

So sayeth an attoryney for one of the others alleged to be involved. Story here:

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/spor...from_over.html

Big wigs? Not sure... Depends on what you need... LOL

Email me and I'll let you know if I can help you out...

It's a non story because it will not involve gambling on NBA games, their own games, or sports betting in general -- there is no way that 20 NBA officials are caught up in this. I doubt that there is even one other NBA official involved.

I don't think the NBA is going to fire an official because he played blackjack or craps a few times. But, personally, I doubt the veracity of what Donaghy is putting out there right now. He doesn't exactly have a lot of credibility as far as I'm concerned.

QFT

LIke I said, part of the deal will be a polygraph. If he passes, the NBA will be forced to do an internal investigation. Should not be too hard to prove, assuming any betting refs don't just go ahead and admit it. Once it is proved, then the NBA is forced to make a decision. Dump 'em or just discipline some other way. If memory serves, didn't they hire back some guys a few years ago after they were convicted in tax cases? There is precedent for them being lenient. Just seems to me, the inertia of the current situation will force drastic action by the League.

I'd bet that the NBA referees association might have something to say about the NBA starting an investigation based on the results of Donaghy's polygraph!!

The NBA letting officials back in the league after the tax issues wasn't leniency -- it was being reasonable. The entire tax issue was a joke dreamed up by the IRS to get them some news coverage. What the NBA officials were doing wasn't anything different than thousands of businessmen did (and probably still do) at the time. However, going after the NBA officials got the IRS on ESPN, whereas prosecuting regular businessmen wouldn't.

Don't kid yourself that the NBA wasn't aware of the officials downgrading first class tickets and pocketing the fare refund. They knew what was going on and it was common practice among the officiating staff. For the IRS to prosecute anyone for not declaring that as "income" is absurd.

The Collective Bargaining Agreement specifically forbids quite a bit of gambling type activity by the refs. Not only would the League be completly within their rights to initiate an investigation based on Donaghy's successful polygraph, they could do it on much less reasonable suspicion than that. Nobody has a "right" to be an NBA ref and if you step outside the bounds of permissible behavior by the employer than you should expect some action.

Don't look for the ref's union to stonewall much of anything since they have publicly said:
"We are going to work hard to restore the public's trust in the integrity of the officials in the NBA," he said. "We're going to do our part to gain and regain the public trust and confidence and to make sure that this is not the final word regarding how referees are defined in the public eye."

Maybe, but I bet you it won't happen :)

I bet you that you are wrong. ;)

Here's my prediction:

1. The NBA was investigate any allegation made by Donaghy;
2. Any official proven to have gambled in a casino will be fired, whether it's one or 20 of them;
3. The referee's association will fully cooperate.

David Stern is a Lawyer, a Business Man and other things. He will do whatever he can so he can come out smelling like a rose. If that means firing 20 guys, 20 guys will be fired.

Hey, Tom! How's things? Where ya been? I disagree with you, but it's nice to see you around.

I'm good. I look in occasionally, but I have been busy with a lot of "stuff."

Tell me how/why you disagree. Do you think Stern would "go down with the ship" without doing something to maintain his image? I think things could get (more) out of control if things got worse and he didn't do something big. Mark Cuban might buy the cubs, sell the Mavericks and try to take Stern's job. You know he is somewhere with that "I told you so" grin on his face. :D

I think Stern knows NBA fans aren't idiots. He knows they can tell the difference between betting on one's own games (Donaghy) and going to a casino to play a game of black jack. He won't need to go down with the ship, because this isn't going to bring the ship down.

I expect, if anything, to see fines levied and nothing more.

Brad has a point, polygraphs aren't really admissable in court, so unless he is able to provide more evidence than that, Stern may not be able to do much. Then again, the NBA Officials Association isn't exactly the Major League Baseball Players Association.

How does he know that? :confused:

Haven't you seen some of the previous posts on here from some of the NBA fanboys, especially some of the Dallas Mavs followers? If they aren't idiots, then you'd only have to <b>add</b> a coupla points to their IQs to make 'em idiots.

I guess if referees went into the casino to play blackjack, it would be a non-story...but many casinos have sports books, in which bets on NBA games are placed all the time.

You do not understand what I am saying. I am saying that the results of the poly can be used by Stern to initiate investigations into the other named refs. Does not have to be admissible in court for him to do that. Furthermore, there are collective bargaining agreeements and employment contracts in many workplaces that require employees to submit to polygraphs in some cases. I do not know if the NBA has that or not. I suspect they do have a pretty easy way to dump someone should they choose to do so. Probably does not take much. Like I said before, nobody has a RIGHT to be a NBA ref.

I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm saying the polygraphs may or may not be enough for the NBA to initiate an investigation. It's largely going to depend on the wording of the collective bargaining agreement. I highly doubt if this scenario was considered when it was written.

Furthermore, I'm saying there isn't going to be much public outcry for these officials to be fired unless it's determined they were betting on basketball. There's no sinking ship for the commissioner to salvage here, other than the actual situation Donaghy created personally. Maybe if they were betting on other sports, but only maybe. But if they can't show anything other than them walking into the casinos and cameras showing them doubling down a pair of Aces, they may well get off with fines if there's a significant number of them. If there's only one or two, they might get fired.

I never said anyone has a right to be a ref at that level. However, the disruption that would come from firing some 20 refs is significant enough that it won't be done lightly. Also, their collective bargaining agreement is going to grant them certain legal rights.

Casinos will have tapes. Any referee accused of betting at casinos will be investigated.

Also Stern cannot come out smelling like a rose no matter what happens on this.

The Officials union will not be a factor. Remember what happened to the umpires.

1) Why does Stern need any justification to start an investgation? :confused:

2) What could be in the collective bargaining agreement that would prohibit Stern from having somebody watch security tapes from a casino?

1. Don't you think any union would raise a stink if the employer was initiating an investigation based on hearsay? The fact that a guy who admits to betting on his own games and giving out confidential inside information to gamblers says these guys were in a casino is hearsay.
2. Valid question. I don't know. Some sort of due process clause, perhaps. I'm not saying it's there, only that it's possible.
3. I still don't expect to see 20 guys get fired over this.

What happened to the umpires was an entirely different situation. Umpires retired because they did not like the contract talks. And the umpires were so arrogant they thought no one else would fill their shoes.

Peace

I have no idea what any union could do to prevent an employer from investigating terms of employment conditions. I bet the most the union could do is raise a stink, but that wouldn't prevent the employer from hiring some private investigators to see what they dig up. But so far, as others have said, the union seems to be less than powerful.

If there is a collective bargaining agreement there are a lot of things a union can stop. Not to say this is one of them, but if you look at the MLB Umpire situation as a model. The Major Leagues cannot just fire those umpires for performance issues like other leagues. It is very possible that some of these things cannot be allowed by the NBA. Or at the very least there is a clear cut explanation of what those penalties would be. I do know that officials in the NBA cannot go into a Casino without first contacting the league and they cannot play slots and blackjack as a hobby. It is possible that it would not be allowed to fire an official just for playing a Casino game without other offenses.

Peace

I agree with you. What I'm saying is there's really little the union or anyone can do to stop them from starting an investigation, which might include some poor SOB looking through hours and hours of casino tape. What comes of that investigation (fines, firing, whatever) is - or should be - stated in the agreement.

I think you're probably right. Now, what are the odds the casinos are going to turn their tapes over?

Not willingly. I'd bet the NBA will get subpoenas if they really want these videos.

Based on what? There isn't any alleged illegal activity.

The NBAs employment requirements aren't going to be enough to get subpoenas. All they have is hearsay that these guys may have placed bets at casinos.

What's to stop them?

I bet they hand them over to divorce lawyers all the time.

edit to add you're acting like the NBA is a government agency and this is a criminal investigation, or that the casinos are a government entity that has to guarantee privacy. Neither is the case, it's an employee/employer/union matter that might or might not become a civil matter later.

Not at all. Quite the opposite in fact. Casinos are private organizations that, I'd be willing to guess, want to protect their customers' privacy for good business reasons. I doubt the casinos will want to release these tapes unless they're compelled to. Since the allegations don't involve any illegal activity, there won't likely be a government agency involved, so the NBA won't be able to compel the casinos to hand over the tapes.

Which brings up......
- the NBA put it's All-Star game in Vegas(and you how <b>that</b> turned out).
- the NBA ran it's summer league in Vegas.
- the NBA is basing it's current Olympic Team training camp in Vegas this summer.
- Stern has been quoted as advocating an NBA franchise for Vegas.

The NBA deserves all of the bad publicity about gambling that it gets. Stoopid monkeys!

They certainly can't compel production of the tapes, but they can certainly ask. I would think that Vegas would be more than willing to help in any investigation of this sort - they want games fixed about as much as Stern does.

Thank you. This is what I was trying to say.

Great point!!! I hadn't even thought of that, but I'm sure you're right about that.

I think there's one point on which we can all agree: all of our comments so far are conjecture. We don't really know what the NBA bargaining agreement contains, what Tim really is going to reveal and how anyone in the gambling industry will actually react.

Having said that, let me add to the conjecture. Tim will say a few refs gambled from time to time, but not on games. Stern will strike a deal with those refs that if they admit it, he will designate it "bad judgment" and they'll get a slap on the wrist if they promise not to do it again. Stern will continue to push Vegas as an NBA location and the whole thing will soon blow over, until Tim's trial. However, at that point, media focus will be on the mob, not on the NBA or Vegas.

My conjecture is based on my knowledge of Vegas - my grandparents lived there (my grandfather worked in the casinos) and I spent many summers there during my teen years plus I lived there for a while - and also my intimate knowledge of The Sopranos.

The fun part will be when mob figures appear on TV with their hats over their faces. I used to see this happen a lot in my old neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago when I was a kid.

Unless you're pretty high up in the casino business we're both just guessing as to what they might or might not be willing to hand over to anyone at any particular time. Certainly you can't stop casino employees from talking to private investigators. No tapes needed at all.

I'm not even sure we agree there's no illegal activity that might be found on the casino tapes related to this case.

Oh.

Then I take it back.

You're right. I'm guessing. And I'm guessing that casinos rely on a customer base that wants to maintain its privacy. The ability to maintain customer privacy is a big selling point for a lot of companies; banks, country clubs, etc. Maybe, if the NBA asks for a specific and limited period of time, a casino might oblige. But if they just want to mine what would amount to months of tape, I'd be pretty surprised if the casinos were willing to turn over the tapes.

Do you really think casino employees are going to recognize NBA referees? I doubt these guys were in there name dropping or big-timing it.

I'm willing to retract all of this, however, if it turns out he's accusing other officials of fixing games and/or gambling on basketball.

Agreed.

Just wanted to level set. Excuse me sir? Do you recognize any of these people? (shows pictures).

Pretty simple, no? I doubt that Stern is sitting by his phone waiting for a full confession.

Not really. With the thousands of faces that come through their casinos every day, do you think they'll recognize pictures of someone who may have come through 6 months ago?

They might have better luck if they ask the cocktail waitresses.

You think dealers don't recognize players? :rolleyes:

This is getting silly.

Let's leave it this way...if *I* were in charge of the NBA I would leave no stone unturned to get to the truth on this.

Maybe you're a more trusting soul than I am, who knows.

Regulars? Sure. Beyond that, no. If these guys are regulars at any given casino, they deserve what they get.
Fair enough.

As I stated previously, my grandfather worked in the Vegas casinos (Stardust, Sands and Sahara) for many years. I once asked him if he "thought it was cool" when celebrities gambled at his table. He said, "All we see are the chips, young man."

I don't think casino employees are going to recognize refs in the casinos unless they're wearing their jerseys. They see literally thousands of people each shift.

Well there you have it. Someone please contact the NBA and tell them they will never beat the truth out of those casino workers and casino management would never cooperate with any investigation. Thanks for settling that one with this conclusive evidence Mark.

Hey...maybe Osama's been hiding at a blackjack table all these years? Sitting next to Jimmy Hoffa and Natalee Holloway?

:rolleyes:

You may be on to something there, Dan. I think you should whiz right down to Washington and suggest this to Robert Gates, or some other hot shot authority. You might get a medal or something.

Why would Robert Gates care where Natalee Holloway is?

I'm going straight to the top on this one: Geraldo Rivera!

Are you saying Natalee Holloway is in Al Capone's safe? :eek:

If he was there with them or saw them in a casino it's not hearsay.

I looked at his blog. Is there really a place called "Phuket Island"? I hope his parents aren't encouraging him to say that out loud! :eek:

Phuket (pronounced poo-KETT) is a lovely island off the coast of southern Thailand. It's main tourist beaches were hit by the tsunami in December, 2004, but they suffered relatively few casualties compared to other spots.

No but DB Cooper might be in there counting his money.

http://www.aero-farm.com/museum/dbcoop.jpg

You realize D.B. is somewhat of a cult hero here in the Portland area. In fact, some people swear they saw him pumping gas with Elvis somewhere in Idaho.

That reminds me of a joke (not that I'm not already enough off topic). Why is there going to be only 49 contestants in the next Miss America pageant?

Because no one wants to be "Miss I-da-ho". http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif

People have gotten them for much less recently. :rolleyes:

Casino's #1 priority is $$$$. If someone is manipulating games to affect the win/loss situation of any bettable event, they'd certainly be interested in getting it resolved. The over/under, odds, etc. are set to maximize the money the casino makes (statistically) If someone is messing with the events, the casinos make less.

BTW - just for your information - the line is not set to indicate how many points the house thinks a team will win (or lose) by. It's set to get an equal amount of money bet on both teams. That's when the house makes the most profit regardless of who wins. When a lot is being bet on one team, they move the line to encourage more money to be bet on the other team.

The house actually makes its money on the "service charge".

Like I said previously; if it turns out that he is credibly charging other officials with doing things similar to what he has done, I agree the casinos are likely to give over the tapes.

However, initial reports were that he was accusing them of, gasp, gambling in casinos. That gambling reportedly does not include betting on basketball; nor do his charges include any sort of game fixing. It seems he's only accusing them of breaking the NBAs conduct code for officials. That's something the casinos couldn't care less about (Yes, Dan, I'm guessing here.)

If the casinos were to develop a reputation for allowing anyone with a contractual grudge (yes, including divorce lawyers) to effectively mine thousands of hours of tape, they'll lose business just as quickly. (Yes, Dan, I'm guessing.)

You forgot to say you're guessing again.

:)

:p