New Rule

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's the part you're forgetting, ignoring, or just don't know. You have to have definite knowledge of a timer's error. Without a timer's error, there is no definite knowledge to have.

Wrong again. The timer mechanism can error, the lag time between the time it takes to start and stop the clock mechanism can be adjusted by the official if he has definite knowledge. If you know it's 5 seconds left and you have a kickball violation, the clock started and stop but now it's 2 seconds. Put 4 seconds back on the clock.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Wrong again. The timer mechanism can error, the lag time between the time it takes to start and stop the clock mechanism can be adjusted by the official if he has definite knowledge. If you know it's 5 seconds left and you have a kickball violation, the clock started and stop but now it's 2 seconds. Put 4 seconds back on the clock.

Really? What is your rules basis for saying you have definite knowledge that one second should have elapsed? Did you look at the clock when you blew your whistle? If so, you're right. Of course, this is what I said previously in this thread.

The only time you can put back on is what ran after your whistle blew.

If, in your scenario, the whistle didn't blow until 2 seconds were left, that's what you're stuck with.

BTW, if this is what you're saying, you're not really disagreeing with JR.

If you don't look at the clock after you blow the whistle, and then look up later and see it stopped at 2 seconds; you're stuck with two seconds. No definite knowledge.

[M&M Guy]

And, Adam, there's this tidbit:

Originally Posted by Old School

If it's .03 seconds on the clock and the ball was kicked on the APTI, put .01 seconds back on the clock and play it out. If the ball is kicked again, the game is over.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Really? What is your rules basis for saying you have definite knowledge that one second should have elapsed? Did you look at the clock when you blew your whistle? If so, you're right. Of course, this is what I said previously in this thread.

The only time you can put back on is what ran after your whistle blew.

If, in your scenario, the whistle didn't blow until 2 seconds were left, that's what you're stuck with.

BTW, if this is what you're saying, you're not really disagreeing with JR.

If you don't look at the clock after you blow the whistle, and then look up later and see it stopped at 2 seconds; you're stuck with two seconds. No definite knowledge.

I keep telling you guys, you don't have to be that damn precise. Common sense it or old school it. If there's 2 seconds on the clock, and I call a violation, and it doesn't start, there's still 2 seconds. I'm not touching it, accept NBA which I don't get to work. If 1 second rolls off, I'm not touching it, but it it goes to zero and the horn sounds. I'm putting 1 second back on.

The condition is no different than if we have a game ending foul. I blow my whistle foul, and then the horn sounds. Well, we're putting time back on the clock, how much time, referees judgment. I really have no clue exactly in tenths of a second what to put back on the clock. All I know is my whistle was before the horn. I'm guesstamating .05 back.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

And, Adam, there's this tidbit:

I saw that, too.
And Rut, I'm not surprised.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I keep telling you guys, you don't have to be that damn precise. Common sense it or old school it. If there's 2 seconds on the clock, and I call a violation, and it doesn't start, there's still 2 seconds. I'm not touching it, accept NBA which I don't get to work. If 1 second rolls off, I'm not touching it, but it it goes to zero and the horn sounds. I'm putting 1 second back on.

The condition is no different than if we have a game ending foul. I blow my whistle foul, and then the horn sounds. Well, we're putting time back on the clock, how much time, referees judgment. I really have no clue exactly in tenths of a second what to put back on the clock. All I know is my whistle was before the horn. I'm guesstamating .05 back.

Note to newer officials. These are the things you can only get away with if you're assigning your own rec league games; or have become a rec league legend. Don't try this in real games.

[Jurassic Referee]

Gee, I come back and Snaqs, M&M and Old School are having one of those great interlectual debates that I've heard so much about.

You three carry on. Let me know what you come up with and we'll get the rules changed.

[M&M Guy]

Interlectually speaking:

Shut up.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Old School

If you know it's 5 seconds left and you have a kickball violation, the clock started and stop but now it's 2 seconds. Put 4 seconds back on the clock.

Make sure when you get one of those fancy new spelling keyboards, you get one of those newfangled calculators, too!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

1)You keep bringing up 5-9-1, and according to 5-9-1, the timer did not start the clock according to the rule. The rule states the timer is to start the clock on my signal, and they didn't.

2) Ok, I'm going to try to improve on my interlect over lunch.

1) But you didn't signal to start the clock, as you were supposed to do under 5-9-4. And when you screwed up by failing to signal "time in" by tule, the timer is authorized to start the clock anyway under 9-5-1. And after the timer does properly start the clock by rule, there now is NO timing mistake to correct under 5-10-1&2. Just follow the bouncing ball.

2) Didn't work. Shoulda tried something easier....like walking on water.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Make sure when you get one of those fancy new spelling keyboards, you get one of those newfangled calculators, too!!

He'll be able to keep track of fouls, arrows, just everything.....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

He'll be able to keep track of fouls, arrows, just everything.....

Does it come with batteries?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Gee, I come back and Snaqs, M&M and Old School are having one of those great interlectual debates that I've heard so much about.

You three carry on. Let me know what you come up with and we'll get the rules changed.

I'm reminded of a debate I had with my son last night.

"Yes."
"No."
"Yes."
"No."
"Yes."
"No."
"Yes."

I won the argument, because of my kene interlectual poweress.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) But you didn't signal to start the clock, as you were supposed to do under 5-9-4. And when you screwed up by failing to signal "time in" by tule, the timer is authorized to start the clock anyway under 9-5-1. And after the timer does properly start the clock by rule, there now is NO timing mistake to correct under 5-10-1&2. Just follow the bouncing ball.

You keep looking at the wrong bouncing ball. I signaled for the clock to stop by keeping my hand in the air. I'm giving you the fact that clock (coulda, woulda, shoulda) started, but I'm saying I stopped the clock at the same time. If time runs off, I can correct for the failure to stop the clock.

Again, I know it's a slight stretch, but intent is a big part of figuring out the rules. If the intent of the new kicked ball interp. is to say any throw-in doesn't end on that violation, then I can't think of any situation where the clock should start even though the throw-in hasn't ended. Can you?

I hope they pick up one of them magic keyboards and get that word "legally" added to 5-9-4 by the time the books come out.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) Didn't work. Shoulda tried something easier....like walking on water.

How do you think I got to lunch?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1532786? What kind of sequence is that? Oh wait - could it be???? YES!! It's a METRIC ABACUS!!!!!

OK - the world is now officially coming to an end.