How many fouls is too many?

[DanIvey]

I believe there was a study done a few years back on the average number of fouls called during a H.S. Boys Varsity game.

It seems to me the number was around 30.

I was checking out the Box Scores today from some local H.S. games, and noticed the total foul count ranged anywhere from 20 to 57. (The 57 was in an overtime game)

Realizing that sometimes we have games where the kids just want to hack, what do you consider an excessive amount of total fouls?

Also, anybody out there want to share some "record" number of fouls they reported in a game.

Dan

[Indy_Ref]

call the amount of fouls that NEED to be called. No limit...no minimum.

[DanIvey]

Originally posted by Indy_Ref
call the amount of fouls that NEED to be called. No limit...no minimum.

Yes Indy...I do realize that, but thank-you anyway.

I am just asking, what number triggers a thought that "wow, there where quite a bit of fouls in that game."

I would say my number is around 40 total fouls.

Dan

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by DanIvey

Yes Indy...I do realize that, but thank-you anyway.

I am just asking, what number triggers a thought that "wow, there where quite a bit of fouls in that game."

I would say my number is around 40 total fouls.

Dan

I'll probably get dinged, but I believe your question is irrelevant. What if a crew called 60 fouls and no one walks away from the game and says, "There were too many fouls called in that game." Or, maybe a crew only called 15 fouls yet no one walked away saying "There weren't enough fouls called in that game."

Your question is coming across like a coach's question...not an official's question.

I just don't think it's relevant. Sorry if I offended you!

[BktBallRef]

Dan, I understand what you're asking. I just think it's difficult to generalize in that fashion. Too many factors are involved. Different teams have different players, run different offenses and different defenses.

I had a holiday tournament semi-final game two years ago in which we called 66 fouls. To look at the write-up in the paper, yes, it looked like too many fouls. But both teams played man to man, one team is notorious for playing defense with their feet, lots of driving to the basket, and they ran every chance they go. The final score was something like 96-89.

I think we called the game like we had to. However, since that game, when our crew is faced with such a game, we let a lot more contact go. It seems that most coaches would rather have less fouls called, even if it's more physical. It's much more difficlt, I think, to call a game in this manner. And even though the coaches prefer it, they still want it called differently when they have the ball.

We had the same two schools, same tourney, semi-finals again, about three weeks ago. Basically, we let them play. Although the teams were not as physical as their counterparts two years ago, we still had to call 20 fouls in the first half. The trio that called the first semi, came in at halftime and said they didn't see anything we could have not called in the 1st half. BTW, I think we ended the game with around 45 fouls.

Perception is reality, moreso than intentions.

[Hawks Coach]

Perhaps another way of asking this question. Is there a point (say both teams are in the double bonus with 4 minutes left in the half) at which you go into halftime and reflect on whether or not it has been the kind of game that should generate that many fouls? Or whether you have been too quick with the whistle?

[Peter Devana]

As I always tell the coaches-"it's a coaching problem"-the refs just call what's necessary!
Pistol

[Doug]

Call however many fouls you need to call to keep the game under control, and make it a good game. There is NO set number of fouls that a reff must call or not call. If a commisioner was watching, he would not not give you games on the reasoning "he called too many fouls that game.", unless the fouls were bogus and bad calls. If it is a foul, call it. You will get yourself in trouble by looking up at the scoreboard or in the books and trying to "even it out", or trying to not go about 40, and basing your officiating on how many fouls others call. It is your game, you're the boss out there, call what you see, have fun, and get paid for it! Good luck,

Doug

[ChuckElias]

Honestly, I never even know how many fouls have been called after the game. I know if we reached the bonus or "double bonus", but I absolutely never know a number for the game. Is this a shortcoming in my mental game? Do you think that this is something that an official ought to know after every game as part of a self-evaluation?

Having said that, there are times at which I think to myself, "Jeez, I wish these guys would get under control. We've had a ton of fouls."

Yesterday's game. Two D3 schools; neither real talented. The visiting team had 13 team fouls with 9:30 left in the first half. They had to have 18 or 20 for the half, and the home team was also in the "double bonus" with about 5 minutes left in the first half. So we had at least 30, if not 35 or 38 fouls in the first half alone. Second half settled down somewhat, but both teams still managed to make it into the double bonus, so that's another 20 or 25 fouls. It wasn't a lot of fun (2-man game, too!!! )

Chuck

[toddwar]

We ran a statistical study in Israel during the 3 seasons 96-99. If I remember correctly, the average number of fouls per game was right around 42 or so. The difference in fouls called against home teams vs. visitors was less than 0.5% in the first two seasons, and in the 3rd season, the difference was exactly 5 (out of more than 4,000 fouls called).

We also did statistics on how many fouls there were in games where X refereed, i.e. we couldn't determine how many fouls each referee called in a given game. but we asked the question: in games where X refereed, how many fouls were called?

Here, we found some interesting numbers. In the main, the games in which there were more experienced referees (2-man mechanics), the average number of fouls called was significantly lower (high 30's) than games in which less experienced referees were involved. You could also see some trends to overcalling in some officials. In a couple of extreme cases, the average number of fouls called in games involving certain referees reached the high 40's, i.e. there might be as many as 20 more foul shots taken in certain games, depending on who the referees were. We felt that we had a big enough bulk of games for each official to makes the numbers statistically significant.

I could dig up the numbers and do a full article for the web site, if anyone's interested.

Todd Warnick
Jerusalem, Israel

[Peter Devana]

Those are interesting and I believe valid statistics. I for one would like to see such an article and would probably use it as an "eye opener" education tool for my organization.
Pistol

[PaREF]

One of the best quotes I ever heard at an officials' meeting was: The first 5 years of officiating you learn what to call; the next 5 years you spend learning what not to call.

Ken

[Mark Padgett]

The only time there is an excessive number of fouls called in a game is when there is one foul too many, and that foul is the one called by my partner at the final horn that allows someone to make free throws that send the game into overtime.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by PaREF
One of the best quotes I ever heard at an officials' meeting was: The first 5 years of officiating you learn what to call; the next 5 years you spend learning what not to call.

Ken

But you don't learn how to make no-calls!

[toddwar]

I will dig up the Israeli statistics and do an article for the web site.