Quick clarification...(but a bit long-winded!)

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by crew
yes i own a rule book.
and i wasnt asking a question, it was a rhetorical statement, TONY.

No, it was a rhetorical question. Whether a question requires an answer or not, it requires a question mark.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by crew

i dont expect anything to make much sense to you.

Sounds like I'm starting to get to him.

[RecRef]

Originally posted by crew

i dont expect anything to make much sense to you.

Oh, to have the ability to kill file!

[ChuckElias]

I don't want to throw fuel on the fire here. This is a serious question for tony (crew). After seeing TH's case and rule citations, are you willing to say that this play is a travel? Or do you still think that there is some rule or interpretation that we're missing?

Again, this is a serious question, not aimed at picking a fight. Just trying to get to the heart of the real question.

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by crew
i disagree, though i see your point. think about a player that dives for the ball catches it hits the ground and slides 5 ft. this is not a travel(momentum rule). when big guys go up for a rebound it is very difficult at times to land on 2 ft. i give the rebounder the benifit of the doubt. especially when his feet did not hit the ground first.

bsktballref-i might be taking your ruling out of context-but from what you wrote a player lying on the ground then obtains the ball would be traveling.

You officiate D1 basketball and you don't know that a rebounder travels when he catches the ball in flight and then falls to the floor?

That is un****ing believable!

A player diving for a ball or a player who gains possession while in the floor are completely different situations than the scenario presented. The original post is traveling in the NF and the NCAA.

Do you own a rule book?
[/B][/QUOTE]
who would have guessed you would say that! [/B][/QUOTE]Probably the same people that wrote the NCAA rulebook,crew!If you have one,look up R4-64-5AR(a) in it.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
4.43.5 SITUATION A: Is it traveling if A1 falls to the floor: (a) while holding the ball; or (b) after being airborne to catch a pass or control a rebound? Ruling: Yes in both (a) and (b).

You officiate D1 basketball and you don't know that a rebounder travels when he catches the ball in flight and then falls to the floor?

That is un****ing believable!

A player diving for a ball or a player who gains possession while in the floor are completely different situations than the scenario presented. The original post is traveling in the NF and the NCAA.

Do you own a rule book?

Tony (not Crew): I hate to give you the kiss of death, but you hit the nail right on the head. Bravo!

[crew]

when big guys go up for a rebound, many times their feet get tangled up and makes it difficult to land on 2 feet. is the contact that tangles their feet a foul, rarely. but when 6 or 8 guys go up to get the ball someone is bound to fall to the floor, and sometimes it is the guy who gets the ball. this is when me and my crew will evaluate the situation differently and sometimes(not all the time)give the rebounder the benefit of the doubt. now if this is a cut and dry rebound where he there is no one to get tangled up with then more than likely it is best to call the travel.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by crew
when big guys go up for a rebound, many times their feet get tangled up and makes it difficult to land on 2 feet. is the contact that tangles their feet a foul, rarely. but when 6 or 8 guys go up to get the ball someone is bound to fall to the floor, and sometimes it is the guy who gets the ball. this is when me and my crew will evaluate the situation differently and sometimes(not all the time)give the rebounder the benefit of the doubt. now if this is a cut and dry rebound where he there is no one to get tangled up with then more than likely it is best to call the travel.

Got it.Contact on a rebounder with the ball that knocks him on his butt is the same as contact on an airborne player shooting that knocks him on his butt,also.Forget the rules and don't call anything in either case.Gotta admire your consistency.

[Mark Dexter]

There is no judgement involved in a travel call! This situation happened in the DI game I was at today, and was (correctly) called a travel.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
There is no judgement involved in a travel call! This situation happened in the DI game I was at today, and was (correctly) called a travel.

Then evidently Tony "crew" Thornton was not officiating the game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Then evidently Tony "crew" Thornton was not officiating the game.

Or members of Crew's crew!:

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
There is no judgement involved in a travel call! This situation happened in the DI game I was at today, and was (correctly) called a travel.

Mark there is always judgement in a travel call or many others for that matter. You have to determine control, then pivot foot or feet and determined if and when the pivot foot or feet moved and how. That all takes judgement. It might not take a lot of judgement, but it does take judgement. That is what officiating is all about.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

By no judgement on a travel, I meant that if there was travelling, you don't think - well, I shouldn't whistle it. It's an automatic call. If there's a slight contact foul by B1 on A1's shot, and the shot is good, you might not whistle it.

And, no, there were no Tonys at the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
By no judgement on a travel, I meant that if there was travelling, you don't think - well, I shouldn't whistle it. It's an automatic call. If there's a slight contact foul by B1 on A1's shot, and the shot is good, you might not whistle it.

And, no, there were no Tonys at the game.

Travelling is the most inconsistent call in the game. Most officials do not all call the same things as travel. I am not saying that it is not easy to call much of the time, but it is not always called the same. And because of that, judgement comes into play every time. For good, experienced officials like yourself, I am sure you get it right. But we know that everyone is not like yourself and that is why judgement comes into play.


Peace

[Mark Dexter]

I've never claimed to call every travel, or that I've never called something that wasn't a travel a travel. However, when I see something that I know is a travel, I call the violation.

When I see contact on the court, however, it is not automatically a foul. In that situation, the entire set of circumstances needs to be reviewed.