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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 01:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
...if this guy was doing these things, someone should have known and figured it out and blown the whistle on him...I find it very hard to believe that no one had a clue and everyone was taken by surprise as Stern keeps saying. They had to know there was something strange going on...
DJ, I've been in this whistle-blowing game for close to 50 years now. I can watch an NBA game now and not have a clue as to what a foul is. Or when traveling should be called. Or when 3-seconds should be called. Or.....

I couldn't say that 20-25 years ago.

That's one of the reasons that I don't watch the NBA anymore.

Apparently Donaghy's evaluations were good and his ratings were high. That has to reflect more on the NBA's current system imo. Garbage in...garbage out.
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 01:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
DJ, I've been in this whistle-blowing game for close to 50 years now. I can watch an NBA game now and not have a clue as to what a foul is. Or when traveling should be called. Or when 3-seconds should be called. Or.....

I couldn't say that 20-25 years ago.

That's one of the reasons that I don't watch the NBA anymore.

Apparently Donaghy's evaluations were good and his ratings were high. That has to reflect more on the NBA's current system imo. Garbage in...garbage out.

I agree...it's very hard to watch. But the people in the league who do know and understand - most importantly other officials - should have been able to figure out that something weird was going on...they do understand the way the league wants things called, etc...it just strikes me as very odd that everyone involved with the league is acting so surprised and shocked. How could no one have known anything???
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 01:57pm
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One thing I've noticed in the some of the stories after Stern's news conference is that they are referring to the official being guilty of betting on games, including ones he has officiated, and providing information on games to others. There is, so far, no substantiation of actually fixing games. Perhaps that is why Stern is sure he's guilty - guilty of betting on games, not necessarily fixing games. Maybe that's why other officials seemed surprised, because there might not be any impropriety during actual games.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
One thing I've noticed in the some of the stories after Stern's news conference is that they are referring to the official being guilty of betting on games, including ones he has officiated, and providing information on games to others. There is, so far, no substantiation of actually fixing games. Perhaps that is why Stern is sure he's guilty - guilty of betting on games, not necessarily fixing games. Maybe that's why other officials seemed surprised, because there might not be any impropriety during actual games.
Two points....

Sterns words verbatim were "Donaghy is the only referee alleged to have bet on NBA games and disclosed confidential information to others."

Donaghy resigned his position. He wasn't suspended or fired. He's history...by his own hand.
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:27pm
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Sterns also said...

"Suffice to say, we would have liked to have terminated him earlier, but our understanding was the investigation would best be aided if we did not terminate Mr. Donaghy,"

I can possibly understand the logic of letting him continue to work. It would be easy to convince yourself that the damage was already done and cooperating with the FBI would not make it worse. By why give him a second round playoff assignment? Why not find a reason to keep him out?

From an article on the press conference...

Stern also outlined the NBA's process of evaluating the officiating of every game, but conceded it had been focused more on the quality of referees' performances than searching for possible wrongdoing. That will probably change, he said. <<>>

Ya think?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd Duck
Sterns also said...

"Suffice to say, we would have liked to have terminated him earlier, but our understanding was the investigation would best be aided if we did not terminate Mr. Donaghy,"

I can possibly understand the logic of letting him continue to work. It would be easy to convince yourself that the damage was already done and cooperating with the FBI would not make it worse. By why give him a second round playoff assignment? Why not find a reason to keep him out?
Get your dates straight.

He didn't continue to work. The league found out on June 20, 2007. That's more than a month after his last game.

Donaghy resigned circa two weeks ago. They would like to have fired him when they found out but did not.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Two points....

Sterns words verbatim were "Donaghy is the only referee alleged to have bet on NBA games and disclosed confidential information to others."

Donaghy resigned his position. He wasn't suspended or fired. He's history...by his own hand.
Right.

And, again my point - no where is there any mention of "fixing" games, whether it is changing the point spread, or actually determining who wins or loses.
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Right.

And, again my point - no where is there any mention of "fixing" games, whether it is changing the point spread, or actually determining who wins or loses.
Let us also remember, betting on the sport is a big time no-no. Stern said in the press conference is we do not care if you bet on games you were involved in or games you were not involved in. He was going to lose his job over that in the first place if that fact was remotely true (which it appears to be at this time). Fixing actual games is another issue all together.

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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Let us also remember, betting on the sport is a big time no-no. Stern said in the press conference is we do not care if you bet on games you were involved in or games you were not involved in. He was going to lose his job over that in the first place if that fact was remotely true (which it appears to be at this time). Fixing actual games is another issue all together.

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JRut... did I hear him correctly when he said NO GAMBLING at all is allowed in the NBA (except horse racing) ?
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:54pm
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Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Right.

And, again my point - no where is there any mention of "fixing" games, whether it is changing the point spread, or actually determining who wins or loses.
Huh?

That's exactly what's being reported, that he fixed games. If you make calls to affect the number of points scored in a game, then from a gambling aspect, you have FIXED the game.

How can you say there's no mention?
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 03:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Huh?

That's exactly what's being reported, that he fixed games. If you make calls to affect the number of points scored in a game, then from a gambling aspect, you have FIXED the game.

How can you say there's no mention?
According to the reports on Stern's news conference, "Stern said the NBA is aware Donaghy is being accused of betting on games and providing information to others for the purpose of profiting off bets. Stern also said that he was unaware of any discussions of Donaghy potentially fixing games."

I was also under the impression it was for fixing games, point spreads, whatever. That was what most of the stories focused on initially. But that isn't what is being reported now. Maybe the gambling is all Stern knows for sure now, and that is all he needs to get Donaghy to resign. Maybe there is more behind the scenes, but it is only speculation.
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:40pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
DJ, I've been in this whistle-blowing game for close to 50 years now. I can watch an NBA game now and not have a clue as to what a foul is. Or when traveling should be called. Or when 3-seconds should be called. Or.....

I couldn't say that 20-25 years ago.

That's one of the reasons that I don't watch the NBA anymore.

Apparently Donaghy's evaluations were good and his ratings were high. That has to reflect more on the NBA's current system imo. Garbage in...garbage out.
he wasn't making a ton of bad calls Jurassic. heck, he didn't even have to make the wrong call sometimes. Sometimes a foul could have came at the perfect time for him. Maybe sometimes in the 4th qtr., while the PG was dribbling, a defender put a hand on the PG on the perimeter and he calls a quick foul, which by the NBA guidelines is a foul. Well a couple of those along with a couple of fouls from your partners and you have the team shooting the penalty early in the 4th. All the time Donaghy gets his fouls charted as correct calls. Easy enough, all the while uping his play calling percentage.

all in all if he was a great play recognition guy and got damn near all his plays right until one or two plays in the 4th, I can see easily how he gets to the playoffs. Plus he didn't have to fix every game. I'm sure there isn't as much betting going on when the Atlanta Hawks play the Charlotte Bobcats vs. the Spurs and the Heat.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 02:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64
all in all if he was a great play recognition guy and got damn near all his plays right until one or two plays in the 4th, I can see easily how he gets to the playoffs. Plus he didn't have to fix every game. I'm sure there isn't as much betting going on when the Atlanta Hawks play the Charlotte Bobcats vs. the Spurs and the Heat.
People who bet all the time would bet on just about every game they can get their hands on. Usually many betters are chasing money. So they might have a sure thing in one game, but they want to make sure they can cover on other games. This is why I do not like betting at all.

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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 10:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
DJ, I've been in this whistle-blowing game for close to 50 years now. I can watch an NBA game now and not have a clue as to what a foul is. Or when traveling should be called. Or when 3-seconds should be called. Or.....

I couldn't say that 20-25 years ago.

That's one of the reasons that I don't watch the NBA anymore.
That's because 25 years ago they didn't have 30 cameras to zoom in on an official's mistake, and they didn't play in on Sportscenter 35 times each hour.

NBA officials make 7-10 mistakes a game. They don't alert the fans to these mistakes, but teams are told that a mistake was made. If you watch a game and observe a no-call that you think should have been called, don't assume that's the way the NBA wants it called. It's possible that the ref didn't see it, or saw it and had a brain fart. These guys are the best, but they are not perfect.
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 01:02pm
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Screw the NBA. My faith in the integrity of the gambling industry has been shaken to the core. I don't even know if I can bet on boxing now.
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