NBA Officials

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

True,but supposedly he's going to plead guilty, and sing like a canary. Pretty safe to assume he's guilty if he plans on pleading guilty.

True. But until he pleads quilty he's assumed to be what...?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

True,but supposedly he's going to plead guilty, and sing like a canary. Pretty safe to assume he's guilty if he plans on pleading guilty.

Maybe, but it's "supposed" at this point. My only point is that just because someone who's supposed to have seen and evaluated the evidence is going on television and proclaiming the accused to be guilty doesn't mean he is in fact guilty; even if the person on TV has credibility.
Granted, Stern isn't Nifong, and doesn't face disbarment if this all goes south for the feds; but it doesn't make Stern's statement any more credible. Like I said, if this all goes south for the feds, Stern is going to owe an apology to this official.

Edited to mark #4000. Me and Pete Rose, baby. Now, what are the odds that this thread gets to 50 posts?

[rockyroad]

I think we can all agree that Stern's #1 priority right now is to protect the League - and if he can do that by throwing this official under the bus, then he will do it in a heartbeat and worry about any apologies he has to make later when and if that time comes...

On a side note, I have led discussions at camps and training sessions for both officials and teachers (my real job) in which I have pointed out that as a ref (or teacher) we are held to a higher standard than the general public (coaches, players, parents, whatever)...but that does NOT mean that everyone who becomes an official (or teacher) is above reproach, and it is our job to make sure that we "police" ourselves so to speak...if this guy was doing these things, someone should have known and figured it out and blown the whistle on him...I find it very hard to believe that no one had a clue and everyone was taken by surprise as Stern keeps saying. They had to know there was something strange going on...

[Adam]

I wonder if the NBA wasn't approached in the midst of the investigation to attempt to gather evidence using the NBA's evaluation system. That might explain Stern's confidence in Tim's guilt.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...if this guy was doing these things, someone should have known and figured it out and blown the whistle on him...I find it very hard to believe that no one had a clue and everyone was taken by surprise as Stern keeps saying. They had to know there was something strange going on...

DJ, I've been in this whistle-blowing game for close to 50 years now. I can watch an NBA game now and not have a clue as to what a foul is. Or when traveling should be called. Or when 3-seconds should be called. Or.....

I couldn't say that 20-25 years ago.

That's one of the reasons that I don't watch the NBA anymore.

Apparently Donaghy's evaluations were good and his ratings were high. That has to reflect more on the NBA's current system imo. Garbage in...garbage out.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

DJ, I've been in this whistle-blowing game for close to 50 years now. I can watch an NBA game now and not have a clue as to what a foul is. Or when traveling should be called. Or when 3-seconds should be called. Or.....

I couldn't say that 20-25 years ago.

That's one of the reasons that I don't watch the NBA anymore.

Apparently Donaghy's evaluations were good and his ratings were high. That has to reflect more on the NBA's current system imo. Garbage in...garbage out.

I agree...it's very hard to watch. But the people in the league who do know and understand - most importantly other officials - should have been able to figure out that something weird was going on...they do understand the way the league wants things called, etc...it just strikes me as very odd that everyone involved with the league is acting so surprised and shocked. How could no one have known anything???

[M&M Guy]

One thing I've noticed in the some of the stories after Stern's news conference is that they are referring to the official being guilty of betting on games, including ones he has officiated, and providing information on games to others. There is, so far, no substantiation of actually fixing games. Perhaps that is why Stern is sure he's guilty - guilty of betting on games, not necessarily fixing games. Maybe that's why other officials seemed surprised, because there might not be any impropriety during actual games.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I think we can all agree that Stern's #1 priority right now is to protect the League - and if he can do that by throwing this official under the bus, then he will do it in a heartbeat and worry about any apologies he has to make later when and if that time comes...

Protect the league from what? If he's convinced the allegations are true, then jettisoning Donaghy is a good move. But if he's not, wouldn't it be better for the league to stand by your man and assert that there has been no impropriety?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

One thing I've noticed in the some of the stories after Stern's news conference is that they are referring to the official being guilty of betting on games, including ones he has officiated, and providing information on games to others. There is, so far, no substantiation of actually fixing games. Perhaps that is why Stern is sure he's guilty - guilty of betting on games, not necessarily fixing games. Maybe that's why other officials seemed surprised, because there might not be any impropriety during actual games.

Two points....

Sterns words verbatim were "Donaghy is the only referee alleged to have bet on NBA games and disclosed confidential information to others."

Donaghy resigned his position. He wasn't suspended or fired. He's history...by his own hand.

[Odd Duck]

Sterns also said...

"Suffice to say, we would have liked to have terminated him earlier, but our understanding was the investigation would best be aided if we did not terminate Mr. Donaghy,"

I can possibly understand the logic of letting him continue to work. It would be easy to convince yourself that the damage was already done and cooperating with the FBI would not make it worse. By why give him a second round playoff assignment? Why not find a reason to keep him out?

From an article on the press conference...

Stern also outlined the NBA's process of evaluating the officiating of every game, but conceded it had been focused more on the quality of referees' performances than searching for possible wrongdoing. That will probably change, he said. <<>>

Ya think?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Two points....

Sterns words verbatim were "Donaghy is the only referee alleged to have bet on NBA games and disclosed confidential information to others."

Donaghy resigned his position. He wasn't suspended or fired. He's history...by his own hand.

Right.

And, again my point - no where is there any mention of "fixing" games, whether it is changing the point spread, or actually determining who wins or loses.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

DJ, I've been in this whistle-blowing game for close to 50 years now. I can watch an NBA game now and not have a clue as to what a foul is. Or when traveling should be called. Or when 3-seconds should be called. Or.....

I couldn't say that 20-25 years ago.

That's one of the reasons that I don't watch the NBA anymore.

Apparently Donaghy's evaluations were good and his ratings were high. That has to reflect more on the NBA's current system imo. Garbage in...garbage out.

he wasn't making a ton of bad calls Jurassic. heck, he didn't even have to make the wrong call sometimes. Sometimes a foul could have came at the perfect time for him. Maybe sometimes in the 4th qtr., while the PG was dribbling, a defender put a hand on the PG on the perimeter and he calls a quick foul, which by the NBA guidelines is a foul. Well a couple of those along with a couple of fouls from your partners and you have the team shooting the penalty early in the 4th. All the time Donaghy gets his fouls charted as correct calls. Easy enough, all the while uping his play calling percentage.

all in all if he was a great play recognition guy and got damn near all his plays right until one or two plays in the 4th, I can see easily how he gets to the playoffs. Plus he didn't have to fix every game. I'm sure there isn't as much betting going on when the Atlanta Hawks play the Charlotte Bobcats vs. the Spurs and the Heat.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Right.

And, again my point - no where is there any mention of "fixing" games, whether it is changing the point spread, or actually determining who wins or loses.

Let us also remember, betting on the sport is a big time no-no. Stern said in the press conference is we do not care if you bet on games you were involved in or games you were not involved in. He was going to lose his job over that in the first place if that fact was remotely true (which it appears to be at this time). Fixing actual games is another issue all together.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Odd Duck

Sterns also said...

"Suffice to say, we would have liked to have terminated him earlier, but our understanding was the investigation would best be aided if we did not terminate Mr. Donaghy,"

I can possibly understand the logic of letting him continue to work. It would be easy to convince yourself that the damage was already done and cooperating with the FBI would not make it worse. By why give him a second round playoff assignment? Why not find a reason to keep him out?

Get your dates straight.

He didn't continue to work. The league found out on June 20, 2007. That's more than a month after his last game.

Donaghy resigned circa two weeks ago. They would like to have fired him when they found out but did not.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let us also remember, betting on the sport is a big time no-no. Stern said in the press conference is we do not care if you bet on games you were involved in or games you were not involved in. He was going to lose his job over that in the first place if that fact was remotely true (which it appears to be at this time). Fixing actual games is another issue all together.

Peace

JRut... did I hear him correctly when he said NO GAMBLING at all is allowed in the NBA (except horse racing) ?