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fullor30 Fri Jul 20, 2007 01:09pm
And One!!
 
This harmless phrase has become nails on a chalkboard to me.

I'm tempted in pregame to tell 'em mention 'and one' and you get banged.

JugglingReferee Fri Jul 20, 2007 01:19pm
Interesting.

This phrase is most often used to voice an opinion that the official missed a call that, imo, has a huge impact on the game: points for a successful FT.

In a way, the phrase is challenging the compentency of the official. Surely this approach by coaches/players needs to be dealt with.

kgeorge0263 Fri Jul 20, 2007 01:24pm
Call it a patient whistle
 
I also dislike the phrase "and 1', but it is common for coaches and players to pick up the popular saying. From the officials view...have a patient whistle and if the players can play through some contact, just call that way on the other end and if you have to come in with a late whistle...then do so!

Love having fridays off in the summer!

-KG

Mark Padgett Fri Jul 20, 2007 01:31pm
That's an automatic stop sign and "I don't want to hear that again, coach."

cmckenna Fri Jul 20, 2007 02:39pm
Why concern yourself with a coach telling you what brand of sneakers he wears? :D

When they yell And 1, yell back Reebok. That'll keep 'em thinking

fullor30 Fri Jul 20, 2007 02:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmckenna
Why concern yourself with a coach telling you what brand of sneakers he wears? :D

When they yell And 1, yell back Reebok. That'll keep 'em thinking
Perfect!!!..............I can't wait to use that!

Mwanr1 Fri Jul 20, 2007 04:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
Perfect!!!..............I can't wait to use that!
Only answer the questions, not statement

Old School Fri Jul 20, 2007 05:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
This harmless phrase has become nails on a chalkboard to me.

I'm tempted in pregame to tell 'em mention 'and one' and you get banged.
But you nailed it, it's harmless. Players say this to one another in pickup games. Really got nothing to do with the ref's. I say it's just another part of the game. In fact, it only becomes a big deal if YOU make it a big deal.

With that being said, if someone And-1 me and then proceeds to tell me how he got foul, show me where he got, etc. That's a different story. Learn to recognize the difference and penalize as such you see fit. If they and-1 me AND then take they azz on down the court, got no problem with that.

Old School Fri Jul 20, 2007 05:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
Interesting.

This phrase is most often used to voice an opinion that the official missed a call
Disagree. It's more often used to signify a great play, and it would be nice if the referee put his signature on it with a call. Players know officials don't call every foul they see.

Quote:
In a way, the phrase is challenging the compentency of the official. Surely this approach by coaches/players needs to be dealt with.
Please! No it's not! The phrase is challenging you because it sure as sh!t don't bother me. We don't need to legislate every single little thing that happens on the court. If somebody's doing something on the court that you don't like, tell them not to do it again, (it works) but please give them a warning before T'ing.

Adam Fri Jul 20, 2007 05:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Disagree. It's more often used to signify a great play, and it would be nice if the referee put his signature on it with a call. Players know officials don't call every foul they see.
Players think officials don't call every foul we see. Officials know officials don't call a foul every time there's contact. There's a difference, and real officials know what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Please! No it's not! The phrase is challenging you because is sure as sh!t don't bother me. We don't need to legislate every single little thing that happens on the court. If somebody's doing something on the court that you don't like, tell them not to do it again, (it works) but please give them a warning before T'ing.
Yet more bad advice, only because there are times when you have to T without a warning. Oh, and also because there's nothing in the rules that tells you to give "warnings" for anything but specific delay of game infractions.

Mwanr1 Fri Jul 20, 2007 05:45pm
I agree with Old School. The term, "And 1" is often said not only to the refs, but also to the player who fouls the scorer. Saying "And 1" and "ref, I was fouled on the shot" is the same - they just wanted the foul call. Usually after saying "And 1," the players who said it is over the no-call. Basketball is an emotional sport - if you take it to the heart, you are over-doing your officiating.

I don't think anyone would bang a player for saying, " I was foul". So why would you do so if a player says, "And 1"?

Old School Fri Jul 20, 2007 05:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Players think officials don't call every foul we see. Officials know officials don't call a foul every time there's contact. There's a difference, and real officials know what it is.

Yet more bad advice, only because there are times when you have to T without a warning. Oh, and also because there's nothing in the rules that tells you to give "warnings" for anything but specific delay of game infractions.
If you do it again, I'm going to give you a T works very well for me. You're right, to hell with a warning, just tell them don't do it again. I always like resolving an issue without enforcing a Technical, but that's just me.

Adam Fri Jul 20, 2007 05:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
If you do it again, I'm going to give you a T works very well for me. You're right, to hell with a warning, just tell them don't do it again. I always like resolving an issue without enforcing a Technical, but that's just me.
I'm not saying not to give little warnings when appropriate. I'm saying not to instruct other officials to withhold the T until they've given a warning. There are times to warn, and there are times to go straight to the T.

Mwanr1 Fri Jul 20, 2007 05:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Yet more bad advice, only because there are times when you have to T without a warning. Oh, and also because there's nothing in the rules that tells you to give "warnings" for anything but specific delay of game infractions.
How so? If you can talk him/her out of a foul, you should do so! I'm not saying you should warn a player throughout the game, but if you can save them a foul and keep the game flowing, then why not? There are times to call T to deescalate a situation; there are also time you don't want to be too good with your whistle.

Old School Fri Jul 20, 2007 05:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I'm not saying not to give little warnings when appropriate. I'm saying not to instruct other officials to withhold the T until they've given a warning. There are times to warn, and there are times to go straight to the T.
But we where talking about an AND-1. So lighten up....

Adam Fri Jul 20, 2007 06:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
But we where talking about an AND-1. So lighten up....
Yup, and I can certainly see situations where this might warrant a T. Like it or not, it means the same thing as yelling "He got fouled and the ref missed it." I'm fine with that coming from the fans, and I'll let a few go from coaches and players, normally.

Old School Fri Jul 20, 2007 06:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Yup, and I can certainly see situations where this might warrant a T. Like it or not, it means the same thing as yelling "He got fouled and the ref missed it." I'm fine with that coming from the fans, and I'll let a few go from coaches and players, normally.
That is not the same to me, and if that was directed right at me. Coach is not going to like my response. I might even do one of your overreaction moves and bypass the warning. :D

fullor30 Fri Jul 20, 2007 09:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Disagree. It's more often used to signify a great play, and it would be nice if the referee put his signature on it with a call. Players know officials don't call every foul they see.

Please! No it's not! The phrase is challenging you because it sure as sh!t don't bother me. We don't need to legislate every single little thing that happens on the court. If somebody's doing something on the court that you don't like, tell them not to do it again, (it works) but please give them a warning before T'ing.
Au contraire...........when directed at me, it implies I blew a call. I have no idea why you think it signifies a great play. It merely implies a foul on a made basket

blindzebra Fri Jul 20, 2007 09:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
Au contraire...........when directed at me, it implies I blew a call. I have no idea why you think it signifies a great play. It merely implies a foul on a made basket
Unfortunately it has become a common thing to say on any basket, contact or not, hell even defender or not. It's become part of the basketball culture.

It's an irritant not unlike when they start yelling, ball, ball, ball or dead, dead, dead.

Mark Padgett Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwanr1
I agree with Old School.
Pigs just flew past my window. http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/1pigflygif.gif

Adam Sat Jul 21, 2007 05:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwanr1
How so? If you can talk him/her out of a foul, you should do so! I'm not saying you should warn a player throughout the game, but if you can save them a foul and keep the game flowing, then why not? There are times to call T to deescalate a situation; there are also time you don't want to be too good with your whistle.
The time to talk them out of fouls, if you're going to do it, is when the stuff is borderline. If they march across the line before you get a chance to talk them down, you don't talk them out of it. It's too late. OS said not to call this T without a warning. I simply said it's bad advice because often times warnings aren't practical.

Is it good game management? Sometimes, but you can't teach an official that he has to give a warning first, because there's no rule that says so.

And I firmly disagree with what's in red. Nothing anywhere says you "should" talk them out of fouls, even if you can. A lot will, but "should" is far too strong.

Adam Sat Jul 21, 2007 05:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwanr1
I agree with Old School. The term, "And 1" is often said not only to the refs, but also to the player who fouls the scorer. Saying "And 1" and "ref, I was fouled on the shot" is the same - they just wanted the foul call. Usually after saying "And 1," the players who said it is over the no-call. Basketball is an emotional sport - if you take it to the heart, you are over-doing your officiating.

I don't think anyone would bang a player for saying, " I was foul". So why would you do so if a player says, "And 1"?
I almost missed this. first of all, if they're saying it to the opponent, I can easily see this escalating quickly to taunting if it goes unchecked. Frankly, if a player is doing this, it easily gets to taunting before you have a chance to check it. I've never seen a single player in high school ball direct this towards an opponent; and at that level, I wouldn't allow it.

To paraphrase the immortal Rutledge, it's not what's said so much as what's meant. To know that, you hear what's said and how. Saying "and 1" to the ref is the same, as you state, as saying "you missed the foul." I might let it pass once or twice, depending on the volume, body language, game situation, etc. After that, it's going to get addressed just like a coach constantly chirping from the sideline "travel, three seconds, five seconds, double dribble," you get the drift. Even more so with players; you don't allow players to consistently ask you for travel calls do you?

I'll let a coach talk a bit; but when a defender gets beat and looks at me making a traveling signal, it doesn't get ignored. Likewise when a shooter announces, "And one."

Old School Sun Jul 22, 2007 01:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
The time to talk them out of fouls, if you're going to do it, is when the stuff is borderline.
Which is exactly what saying and-a is. It is not a major situation where we need to jump in and start throwing T's.

Quote:
OS said not to call this T without a warning. I simply said it's bad advice because often times warnings aren't practical. Is it good game management? Sometimes, but you can't teach an official that he has to give a warning first, because there's no rule that says so.
And this is why you will remain a lower level official because one things for sure, an assigner does not want to put an official on the floor that's going to T up a player for saying And-1. I can see you now, coach, why did my player get a T, because he said And-1. That's going to go over real good, and let's just hope the parent or coach doesn't work for the company or there could be some serious legal issues for you to deal with. Like slander....

I should put together a book entitled Common Sense Officiating. Things you may not want to do in a game that could stunt your career. I see a lot of you need it. Little things you can do that will make your games run smoother, and keep you out of hot water.
#1 have a personality.
#2 smile, it ain't that damn serious.
#3 warnings, no limit to how many you can give.
#3a. warning buss word - that's enough...! Repeated several times will defuse most technical foul situations.
#4 games with no technicals tend to run a little smoother
.
.
#99. I'll end with this one, but the rest you will have to get the book. Failure to apply these common sense items could mean stunting your career in a permanment manner.

Jurassic Referee Sun Jul 22, 2007 01:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Which is exactly what saying and-a is. It is not a major situation where we need to jump in and start throwing T's.

And this is why you will remain a lower level official because one things for sure, an assigner does not want to put an official on the floor that's going to T up a player for saying And-1. I can see you now, coach, why did my player get a T, because he said And-1. That's going to go over real good, and <font color = red>let's just hope the parent or coach doesn't work for the company or there could be some serious legal issues for you to deal with. Like slander....</font>

I should put together a book entitled Common Sense Officiating. Things you may not want to do in a game that could stunt your career. I see a lot of you need it. Little things you can do that will make your games run smoother, and keep you out of hot water.
#1 have a personality.
#2 smile, it ain't that damn serious.
#3 <font color = red>warnings, no limit to how many you can give.</font>
#3a. warning buss word - that's enough...! <font color = red>Repeated several times</font> will defuse most technical foul situations.
#4 <font color = red>games with no technicals tend to run a little smoother</font>
.
.
#99. I'll end with this one, but the rest you will have to get the book. Failure to apply these common sense items could mean stunting your career in a permanment manner.
I'll end with this one without even getting into some of the unbelievably wrong things that you posted above, you don't have a clue what you're talking about when it comes to a <b>real</b> basketball game. Hell, your nonsense above would even get you into doodoo in your rec leagues if the players were shaving age.

Sigh.....ten thousand silly monkeys with ten thousand typewriters....:rolleyes:

Mark Padgett Sun Jul 22, 2007 02:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
let's just hope the parent or coach doesn't work for the company or there could be some serious legal issues for you to deal with. Like slander....
What the hell does this mean???? :confused:

Jurassic Referee Sun Jul 22, 2007 03:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
What the hell does this mean???? :confused:
Don't even try to guess. It'll just make your head hurt.:rolleyes:

Mark Dexter Sun Jul 22, 2007 03:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
I should put together a book entitled Common Sense Officiating. Things you may not want to do in a game that could stunt your career. I see a lot of you need it. Little things you can do that will make your games run smoother, and keep you out of hot water.
Guess you'll have a lot of time on your hands once the feds throw you in the slammer.

rainmaker Sun Jul 22, 2007 04:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
#4 games with no technicals tend to run a little smoother
Games with no need to call a technical do run pretty smooth. BUt when the time comes for a T, and it isn't called, SMOOTH isn't what the game is called. BRAWL would be more like it.

rainmaker Sun Jul 22, 2007 04:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Which is exactly what saying and-a is. It is not a major situation where we need to jump in and start throwing T's.
As several have said, it's often not a major situation, but it can be. One simple rule doesn't cover it. Which you agree with, sometimes, and then disagree with, sometimes. I'm just not finding your posts on this subject very helpful.


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