FBI investigating NBA ref

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Why hate on Ronnie Nunn, he's not to blame for this. However, I do blame the overall system for not sticking to its own rules. Even in DI college, you have the problem of advantage/disadvangate and how it affects the game.

What is RSBQ?

RSBQ

Rhythm is better than rate, though.

Originally Posted by Old School

What's the point if you don't follow them, and that goes all the way back to HS. Am I affecting the outcome by not calling that foul at the top of the key, even though the player didn't lose the ball. It can't be fixed. There's always going to be a losing coach who's going to complain, either way.

To me, part of the problem is officials who get too big in the system. They have been working a very long time and they feel they are beyond approach.
Another problem is the grading system. The grading system creates walk on water attitude officials. For me, as you have witness me engaging this forum. I can't stand people who think they are perfect (JR). He's always willing to tell me and the rest of the world I screwed up when I make a decision. Where does that leave me? It leaves me with a permanent bad attitude, might as well get what I can from it. You have to be very careful with the grading system. You want to use it to make others better, not to point out flaws.

You need to work through either (a) your lack of confidence, or (b) how much you care about this forum.

Originally Posted by Old School

I will say this, you can bet from here on out that the betting lines are now going to need to be known by the league and calls towards the end of the games are going to be more scrutinized than ever before. Our job, [not needed] just got harder.

I disagree. This unfortunate incident will have little or no effect on the games I do; though I'm in Canada. It is something else that we have to decide upon if we hear something, such as "Did the mob tell you to call that foul?" I'm sure a joke or two will come out of this situation, and if I hear it as such, I will take it as so. But if they're not joking, it's a T like any other comment designed to challenge our integrity.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Soon enough I'm sure there will be an analysis of all the games he worked and how they rated against the various spreads.

I posted this as a link the other day. But here is the information:

For the 2006-07 season:
(How home teams fared when Donaghy was an official):
Against the Spread: 30-41-3
Over/Under: 43-29
Points For: 101.50
Points Against: 99.66
Win Margin: 1.84
Total Points: 201.16

For the 2005-06 season:
Against the Spread: 32-32-2
Over/Under: 36-30
Points For: 99.33
Points Against:97.47
Win Margin: 1.86
Total Points: 196.8

Source: Covers.com

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

1) What is RSBQ?

2) For me, as you have witness me engaging this forum. I can't stand people who think they are perfect (JR). He's always willing to tell me and the rest of the world I screwed up when I make a decision. Where does that leave me?

1) That's what they teach at camps. Find someone that's been to one and ask them.

2) It leaves you masquerading as an official in those low level rec league games that you do.

QUESTION: How do you know when Old School screws up a rule?
ANSWER: Every time that he tries to answer a question.

[JRutledge]

JR,

Why do you keep responding to this fool? If you noticed when he addressed me I have not responded and I did not even need to use an ignore list. It is very clear he does not know anything. Just let it go sometimes.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

JR,

Why do you keep responding to this fool? If you noticed when he addressed me I have not responded and I did not even need to use an ignore list. It is very clear he does not know anything. Just let it go sometimes.

Peace

Jeff, you're right. I probably should. But this clown is like fingernails on a blackboard to me, and he's been that way since he was JMO over on McGriffs. He's just aggravating as hell.

The biggest problem that I have with him is that new officials and non-officials might actually believe some of the crap that he posts. By posing as an official, he makes all of us look bad to anyone foolish enough to actually believe that he is one.

You are right though. We all might be better off if everyone just ignores him. It's just kinda tough to ignore him when he butchers a basic rule so badly though.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

Donaghy worked the pivotal 2nd Round Series between SA and Phoenix. Very good article on this: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/070722

Here's the video montage that Simmons mentions in the article:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

I posted this as a link the other day. But here is the information:

For the 2006-07 season:
(How home teams fared when Donaghy was an official):
Against the Spread: 30-41-3
Over/Under: 43-29
Points For: 101.50
Points Against: 99.66
Win Margin: 1.84
Total Points: 201.16

For the 2005-06 season:
Against the Spread: 32-32-2
Over/Under: 36-30
Points For: 99.33
Points Against:97.47
Win Margin: 1.86
Total Points: 196.8

Source: Covers.com

While this is interesting in aggregate (notice how scoring went up 5 ppg and the over/under edge for the home team went from 36-30 to 43-29) it is not likely that all the games were in play. If he was truly "throwing games", it was probably not more than one game a week or so. Don't want to go to the well too often.

I guess if I paid more attention in Statistics class I could pick up other trends, from the aggregate numbers, but that's what I get for taking a course graded on a curve, LOL.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Jeff, you're right. I probably should. But this clown is like fingernails on a blackboard to me

Good.

and he's been that way since he was JMO over on McGriffs.

Mistaken identity.

The biggest problem that I have with him is that new officials and non-officials might actually believe some of the crap that he posts. By posing as an official, he makes all of us look bad to anyone foolish enough to actually believe that he is one.

I can not make you are anyone else look bad. You make yourself look bad. Quite blaming the world for your shortcomings. Also, you (or myself for that matter) can no more control the way someone else thinks than you can control the weather. You insult everyone's intelligent by assuming other officials, other potential officials don't have the wherewithal to open up the book that's available to everyone and read the correct answer themselves.

You are right though. We all might be better off if everyone just ignores him. It's just kinda tough to ignore him when he butchers a basic rule so badly though.

It never ceases to amaze me how one person tries to convince others who they should and should not talk too. That's okay when you are kids but when you reach a certain age, you have to learn to let others make their own choices. By you trying to make the choice for someone else, you make yourself look bad.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Here's the video montage that Simmons mentions in the article:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

1st play--This was not a very good call. I have seen this call made many times at all levels.

2nd play--Looked like a block to me.

3rd play--Great offensive foul. You cannot just push someone out of the way in the post. This is often not called and they got it right.

4th play--This was a very close call. Also an NBA official told me that when they look at film on block/charge calls, that 80% were considered blocks by the NBA. Also Nash kind of flopped and the NBA wants more calls either way on these types of plays. Even at the camps I went to this summer; it was beat into our head to call something.

5th play--Looked like the defender ran into Duncan. Hard to say how much of the contact caused Duncan to foul, but he did after all fall. Bad angle on the replay, but I see why the foul was called. BTW, you noticed no players complained?

6th play--What is the damn problem? An offensive foul was called (or Player Control Fouls for other levels).

7th play--It is called defense for a reason. They can touch you. And it looked to me as if Nash was losing the ball when there was any kind of contact. Just because Nash reacted does not make it a foul.

8th play--The defender tapped away the ball. It is called DEFENSE!!! (Or DEFENCE for Mr. Nash).

The bottom line the only call that I would say that was totally bogus was the one made by Tim Donaghy which was very early in the game and likely he was dinged for this anyway. Once again the average person does not understand that the NBA evaluated each call. Now we do not know what the NBA thought, but as an official when a ball handler tries to squeeze a ball between two defenders, that is not likely to be called. For one it is a dumb play and secondly there is always going to be some kind of contact. That is just the nature of the game.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

What is RSBQ?

Do we need any more evidence that OS doesn't do upper high school or any college?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

I can not make you are anyone else look bad. You make yourself look bad.

You should word this, "Each person makes him or herself look bad or look good". JR doesn't make himself look bad. He knows the rules, reads the book, and applies the rules consistently. He makes himself look good. The only thing he asks of you is that you do the same, and he states quite clearly what happens when you don't. On which point you appear to agree with him by saying, "You make yourself look bad."

Originally Posted by Old School

Quite blaming the world for your shortcomings. Also, you (or myself for that matter) can no more control the way someone else thinks than you can control the weather. You insult everyone's intelligent by assuming other officials, other potential officials don't have the wherewithal to open up the book that's available to everyone and read the correct answer themselves.

If it's so easy to do it, why don't you?

[JugglingReferee]

Thanks to The Score, a Canadian channel, for providing this footage.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Here's the video montage that Simmons mentions in the article:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

Play 1: Not a good call at all, with Tim Donaghy at T.

Play 2: I've got a foul on Tim Duncan.

Play 3: This is a foul. 100%.

Play 4: The blocking call is wrong, imo. This is an offensive foul. Nash had great position. Tim "the whiner" Duncan gets a superstar call.

Play 5: I've got a Team B foul. Duncan still is a whiner.

Play 6: If I see this in a Fed game, I pray that I have the gonads to call INT. A knee to the groin of a stationary player. Nice.

Play 7: Looks like Nash messed up one of his behind the back passes. I couldn't see the foul from that angle.

Play 8: Nash was contacted by two Spurs players, not just one. Both prior to the ball coming loose. Bad no-call.

All in all, at best 50% correct calls by this crew.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Play 4: The blocking call is wrong, imo. This is an offensive foul. Nash had great position. Tim "the whiner" Duncan gets a superstar call.

Superstar call? I thought Nash won the last two MVP awards before this season?

Nash flopped if anything. If he wanted to get not called for a foul, why not just be a man and take the contact. Why do you have to embellish the contact? I do not even believe that Nash even was contacted in the chest.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Play 6: If I see this in a Fed game, I pray that I have the gonads to call INT. A knee to the groin of a stationary player. Nice.

Why just intentional? Why not flagrant? To be fair this is not a play you see every day. And if Nash did not react the way he did, we likely would have never been able to discuss this play. The bottom line is a foul was called. We can always debate what we ultimately call on a play like this. If the game was fixed why was there a call at all?

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Play 8: Nash was contacted by two Spurs players, not just one. Both prior to the ball coming loose. Bad no-call.

I agree with that there was contact, but Nash tried to squeeze between two players. Why Nash gets credit for being an MVP just baffles me. That is a play I do not expect a HS varsity player to make. He had no where to go similar to the previous play that was no called. Also let us not forget, we did not see all calls during the game. How do we know this similar call was not called at other times during the game? That is the problem with videos on “YouTube” and people post things with an agenda.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

1st play--This was not a very good call. I have seen this call made many times at all levels.

2nd play--Looked like a block to me.

3rd play--Great offensive foul. You cannot just push someone out of the way in the post. This is often not called and they got it right.

4th play--This was a very close call. Also an NBA official told me that when they look at film on block/charge calls, that 80% were considered blocks by the NBA. Also Nash kind of flopped and the NBA wants more calls either way on these types of plays. Even at the camps I went to this summer; it was beat into our head to call something.

5th play--Looked like the defender ran into Duncan. Hard to say how much of the contact caused Duncan to foul, but he did after all fall. Bad angle on the replay, but I see why the foul was called. BTW, you noticed no players complained?

6th play--What is the damn problem? An offensive foul was called (or Player Control Fouls for other levels).

7th play--It is called defense for a reason. They can touch you. And it looked to me as if Nash was losing the ball when there was any kind of contact. Just because Nash reacted does not make it a foul.

8th play--The defender tapped away the ball. It is called DEFENSE!!! (Or DEFENCE for Mr. Nash).

The bottom line the only call that I would say that was totally bogus was the one made by Tim Donaghy which was very early in the game and likely he was dinged for this anyway. Once again the average person does not understand that the NBA evaluated each call. Now we do not know what the NBA thought, but as an official when a ball handler tries to squeeze a ball between two defenders, that is not likely to be called. For one it is a dumb play and secondly there is always going to be some kind of contact. That is just the nature of the game.

Peace

I agree, first play was a very very bad call from Tim. You just got to trust your partners on this play and at this level. Calls like this make you look bad as a crew.

Play #4: I would have called a block on Nash because I don't want little players running underneath bigger players in an attempt to draw a foul. Bigger player falls harder, could cause injury. My block call here is a statement call. I think this was a great call. This is what I call protecting the good players. In HS, this is offense.

Bad call on Diaw, where Duncan stuck his leg out. I don't have a problem with this call, but I think it would have been a better call on Duncan. Here is where you want a patient whistle and penalize the worse infraction which was Duncan throwing his leg out. I mean, I could have had a defensive foul but upgraded it because of Duncan cheap actions in the end. Lead should have been all over this call, offense. Duncan would have said, how is that offense, and i would have said, because you stuck your leg out. You don't do that, I got a defensive foul.

Last, the fouls on Nash. Nash is the 2-time MVP, and knows how to handle the ball and is a great basketball player. He doesn't throw the ball away. SA got away with some cheap defensive tactics here. It's like hitting under the belt. Here is where the officials looked bad to me. They let cheap sh!t get by on one of the leagues best players. I'm talking cheap play. However, I will agree you don't try to dribble between two players. I'm not bailing out any dribbler when they make bad decisions like this.

This was one of the NBA's best games of the year, best series of the year. This would have been a great game to work. This is the type of game I live for. Men's basketball played at a very high level, like this series is the best basketball in the world. This game had excitement, great basketball play, officials made some great calls here. They missed a few but they got more than they missed. I don't think the NBA officials are that accustom to play that is this fast. They missed a lot of cheap stuff going on at the point guard position. Because of this, one team was put at a disadvangate. In the end, I say average job, it definitely was not a bad job like I heard others say. I also don't think Tim had enough time to do anything but call what was in front of him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You are right though. We all might be better off if everyone just ignores him. It's just kinda tough to ignore him when he butchers a basic rule so badly though.

Read the last response. This is the perfect example to just ignore him.

Peace