Keady was torqued!

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by mick

Bart,
Those must be "small-hand conferences".
That determination reduces the need for officials to have to make the control judgement.
Do you think that is a proper application?
mick

Like I said, these decisions on establishing player (and therefore team) control with the tap are the diciest and have inspired some great debate - Tony's favoite term, the "controlled tap!" Must start a dribble or hold the ball for there to be control. This deteermination that a tap was either a temporary hold then then throw, or the start of a dribble, are one of the most difficult to make. IMO, one should err on the side of determining that a tap does not establish team control unless it just seems so obvious you have to say it was controlled. But I know there are differences on this point and I respect those differences. Just call it consistently, and how your bosses tell you to, and we'll play by your rules!

[Bart Tyson]

1st) the original post was uncertain about the player tapping to the BC was control. This is why I bright it up. 2nd) The supervisors are trying to take some judgement out so we can be consistant. I don't think its relevant it size conferences. As the old saying goes," right or wrong the boss is still the boss".

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Control on the throw does not matter!!!

Yep, it does. RecRef is saying that he sometimes has trouble determining whether the ball is batted or whether it is caught and thrown.

[Bart Tyson]

exception, Player saving the ball from going OOB. He jumps grabs ball with both hands and throws the ball inbounds. No player control.

[RecRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Control on the throw does not matter!!! Here are the four BC violation requirements:

(1) Team A must have control.

And it under situations where there is no team control that my problem comes into play. Missed shot, no team control, ball is batted about, not a dribble, tap, or hold just a bunch of A and B players trying to gain control. Ball heads OOB and A1 reaches for it and flings/throws it back in one motion. Is there control?

Same thing but on the floor. No team control and kids are diving for the ball. A1 gets a hand on it and flings it back. Is there control?

Notice that I did not say the ball is batted back or did I say it was aimed at A2 or A3…

So yes I must use my judgement.


[Edited by RecRef on Jan 10th, 2002 at 09:49 AM]

[mick]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
exception, Player saving the ball from going OOB. He jumps grabs ball with both hands and throws the ball inbounds. No player control.

Then are you saying that the player may not request "Time" because there was no player control?
mick

[Bart Tyson]

Well Mick when you put it that way it does appear to be unfair. hummmmm. The situation we discussed was on a clock reset. def. grabs the ball to save from OOB, throws it inbounds but to the off. player. We determind no player control, no reset. I do believe you have a point about the time out.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Yep, it does. RecRef is saying that he sometimes has trouble determining whether the ball is batted or whether it is caught and thrown.

In the original situation - ball batted/thrown/tapped into BC - all that matters is that the ball was touched.

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

In the original situation - ball batted/thrown/tapped into BC - all that matters is that the ball was touched.

You, Mark, assumed team control. Original post did not.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by mick

You, Mark, assumed team control. Original post did not.

And, more to the point, origianl poster admitted he didn't know if this was a rebound or a loose ball after a drive to the hole. Very different situations.