I have heard several comments about the supposed star system that the NBA endorses in newspapers, magazines, and TV. That somehow David Stern tells Ed Rush to cheat for the stars and then Rush orders this to the 60 or so NBA officials on staff and everybody keeps it in house with no leaks is ludicrous. That is a very serious accusation. These same people contend that NBC conspires with David Stern who gets with Ed Rush who then gets with the NBA playoff crews to make series go the full 7 games. What about this possibility? The stars got to be stars for a reason. They are good at drawing fouls and making defenders do illegal acts in order to guard them because they are quicker, smarter, and more athletic then there opponent. They are good at fooling the referees into making them think they got fouled. Also, as a referee I know there are times when a skilled athletic player takes it to the hole and his body goes off balance I might call a foul when maybe it wasn't. However, if some clumsy unathletic player who has 5 turnovers in the game already takes it to the hole and his body goes off balance I will say to myself "Oh, that's just so and so. He always loses his balance." Now maybe he actually got fouled on the play, but as referees we don't always see the play perfectly. Sometimes, we have to take educated guesses. These educated guesses a lot of times are based on what type of player we are dealing with. Soemtimes these gets us in trouble but most of the time we are right on these educated guesses. Let me know what you all think. Do you look at each player as a number or by what type of player they are and what they are capable of when reffing a game?

Eli,

You are absolutely right -- it's absurd that people accuse the entire NBA officiating staff (and officials in general) of cheating. Of course, we have to remember that the vast majority of these people don't have the first clue when it comes to officiating.

Unfortunately, half a million dollars for Cuban is like fining your or me $20. I think that he's going to easily surpass a clean million this year if he keeps it up!

Eli,
I wa just thinking about the same thing you just posted, while I was on my way home from a game last night.
Why does it appear that Stars get preferential treatment?
It's because they are THAT MUCH BETTER than anyone else in the league. The NBA is full of great athletes, but only a handful of Stars. Those players can do things physically AND mentally, that sets them apart from the others!
Great point Eli.
I have never witnessed Ed Rush or Darell Garretson for that matter, tell his officials to allow the Stars to do whatever they want.
THe NBA wants its officials to be AWARE of foul counts, that much is true. But that philosophy is used at every level. "Hey, #35 has 4 fouls. Let's make sure his 5th is a good one." Anyone ever been told that by a parnter in a High School or College game? If so, you are now a perpetrator of the "star" system!;)

DrakeM,
Yeah, I've heard that one... too frequently, yet I don't have a good response for it except my "Dumb" look. :(
mick

Eli,

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, honestly. Are you saying that there is no preferential treatment given to the star players? Because if that's what you're saying, then it's been documented to be false. I posted this previously, but maybe you missed it. I believe it was 2 seasons ago, although it may have been 3, an NBA ref got into quite a bit of trouble because he called a foul. The player he called it on complained to him about it. The official said, "I know it was [star player]'s foul. But you only have one, so I gave it to you." This comment was overheard by a player or coach on the other team, who (SURPRISE!) went nuts.

It's a documented fact that the officials try to help the star players stay in the game. It's better for the flow of the game, and better for ratings.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about officials conspiring to prolong a series, or to help one team win to get a better matchup in the next round of playoffs. The one thing that I think is true of officials everywhere is that they don't care who wins.

Not trying to pick a fight here, just trying to figure out exactly the point you were making.

Chuck

star system
 

ERoe39,
I totally agree with you. With the amount of time it takes to make a judgment on a play and process that in your mind, I totally disagree with people that say a "star system" is in place in the NBA.
Conspiracy theories are everywhere (NBA, the government, aliens on Mars). The staff in that league has been great and because of their intense training and education, will only get better due to good people that are in charge at that level.

There are a number of "unwritten" rules of refereeing that never are discussed publicly, only in forums like these. This is not out of a desire to keep things secret. It merely relfects that you can only have these kind of discussions among a group of people who understand the whole context in which these rules exist and why they do 9most of the general population doesn't know anything other than you can call three seconds during rebounds!)

As you get to the higher levels Eli, I am sure that the expectations that you follow certain unwritten rules grows exponentially (in general -obviously there are specific situations that you need to deal with that unwritten rules may not adequately address). Because there is higher scrutiny, constant review and supervision, and higher levels of play, the unwritten rules that people follow are also probably greater.

So if there is an unwritten rule in the NBA that you have to have a solid foul to call it on a star, it would not surprise me in the least. The NBA is in the business of spending and making huge amounts of money. It would also not strike me as some sort of major conspiracy worthy of a 60 Minutes expose. The stars have earned what they get, and did not become stars because of some favored status they had before reaching the NBA.

I personally believe that officials are going to be more cautious about fouling out the star that everyone came to see rather (MJ) than fouling out Tyronne Lue. So make of that what you will, but it doesn't mean you ignore fouls, it means you are careful only to call fouls that clearly need to be called. Stars get a little more incidental contact. And stars that play rough in general have been known to foul out. It is only those stars that in general don't foul that will get the benefit of the doubt.

If there are any of you out there naive enough to believe there is no star system in the NBA, please read "Calling The Shots" by Earl Strom.

After reading his book, you will never have to ask that question again.

I'd love to, but can't find a copy. Do you have one I could borrow?

I don't follow the NBA much, and don't much care, except that the way things go on TV really does affect the kids that I work with.

I do know that I saw one play by Shaq which I am quite sure would have gotten anyone else kicked out of the league for a while that wasn't even called. Shaq went up for a dunk, and was heavily guarded by Arvydas Sabonis (I do watch the Blazers occasionally). Shaq hung on the rim, and while he was hanging he lifted his feet and kick Sabonis in the chest. Although he had no reason to be hanging, he was up there about three seconds with his feet all sideways and his gunboats planted firmly on Sabonis, who fell backwards onto a cameraman. It was replayed several times because the announcers were trying to decide whether Sabonis' feet were in the "free circle" or not. No one bothered to check where Shaq's feet were.

That one play did it for me. If Rasheed Wallace had done that, he would be in jail right now, absolutely no question. I'm not defending Wallace, but I think the same standards of behavior should apply to Wallace and Shaq, and everyone else in the NBA.

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i only wish i were a good enough official that the only complaint people can come up with is "he lets the stars do whatever." lets reverse this for a moment and say this was nba officials posting about highschool and college officials. this is what i think they would say, "these guys below us are really coming along, they are getting better fast, and keep an eye on this guy hes doing really well....etc." they are above trashing other officials on a public board like this one. maybe i take these comments about our fellow officials way to personal. or may be everyone here should look at reality and focus on our very own problems instead everyone elses.

Home field advantage.
 

Well, you must understand, that at all levels people feel that "certain" factors affect officials. You still always here of assumption of "getting certain calls at home." And when this is said, there is never an explaination for why this would be. So I look at the assumption of the "star treatment" in the NBA the same way. I think it has no bearing for the most part. But if MJ is one of the quickest players in the game and attacks the basic unlike anyone else in the game (I am talking past Bull days of course), who do you think is going to get most of the attention by the defense? Of course MJ or Allen Iverson are going to get fouled more than any other player. The defenses are going to attack them more than and Eddie Curry. That is just the way the game is period.

Peace

crew,
Ain't no one trashin' no one.
You implying that this little deal is exposing a "dirty little secret" ?
Those professional officials certainly don't have to concern themselves what we think or write.
mick

Star System
 

By the way it's not called a "free circle." It's called the restricted area. There are certain rules and exceptions that apply to the restricted area. For a further discussion of this, we could start a meaningful thread and discussion of it, if someone is interested.

I'm done talking about star treatment and things of this nature. If you guys want to talk about plays, judgment and philosophy; fine I would love to engage in that. In only helps myself and others get better and exchange ideas.

The 60 man staff, is a 60 man staff because those are the best 60 guys. They have a training program to train and educate officials and prepare them for the highest and best level of all, the NBA. I have the utmost respect and enjoy watching them, personally and professionally.

BB
I agree, it is the best level of play, I think it is very well officiated, and when you look at games over time, the top teams make the championship, and many of the others that do not have obvious shortcomings that either prevent them from making the playoffs or send them home early. Regardless of whether Shaq gets a couple of calls a game, the Lakers (of whom I am NOT a fan) are clearly the dominant team in hoops. they deserve what they got, the rest is just whining. And if star power and glitz were all there was to making the championship, the Bad Boy Pistons out of Motwon would never have gotten past the second round and Jordan would have had a ring 2 years earlier - big star, big city - had to wait and earn his rings.

Re: Star System
 

i agree with you that the NBA officials are just that, the 60 best officials in the country. i'd like to point out that there are 2 WOMEN on staff, both of whom i know, as a male official, i can learn a great deal from by watching them work.

jake

star system
 

Please excuse my political incorrectness. A 60 person staff. Wouldn't want to offend anybody, by all means. Goodness.

I mean no offense, Tony, but there's no "maybe" about it. This is not the first time you've been displeased with comments b/c you felt they were too personal; when in fact, nothing personal was ever said. I think you (and also bpf) reacted this same way to some other comments I wrote in a previous thread on a similar topic to this one.

No one -- repeat, NO ONE -- here is saying anything derogatory about NBA officials. Not a word. We are only discussing how the league itself wants the games called, b/c that's exactly how the officials call the games.

To deny that the officials interpret the league's rules to benefit its star players is, I think, not being honest with oneself. Just my opinion.

Chuck

Did you see his interview.
 

Cuban was on PTI on ESPN the other day defending his comments. One of the things that he said I found hilarious was the fact that he thinks that the best officials are not in the NBA and that NCAA officials with more experience should be hired by the NBA to officate the league. But the reality is, if there are better officials in the college ranks, I really do not think that they would even want to do the NBA. The Hightower, Hillary, Higgins and Valentine's of the world probably do not want anything to do with the NBA or never have. He is just like other stupid fans that thinks everyone is fasinated by the NBA. NNNOOOOOTTTTT!!!!!!! You could not get me to do the NBA if they paid me $1,000,000. Well I might have to think about that then, but considering that college officials can make about the same during a season as many NBA officials, I really do not see the appeal.

You can do L.A. Lakers vs. Philadelphia 76ers and it would not be the same from year to year. Duke-North Carolina will always be the same. Even with the fact that North Carolina is not doing that game this year that game is still going to have some kind of magic. L.A. Lakers-Philadelphia might not be the same in 10 years.

But that is just my opinion. :)

This sis my feeling exactly. Of course, they are the best. And I would never say they are cheaters or dishonest. They do the best they can and that's saying a lot. I just don't like the philosophy that offense gets the breaks, and defense is no fun to watch. I don't enjoy watching NBA because it's too show-offy and there's not enough team work. That's the way other fans (who have more money to throw around than I do) want it, and that's what they get. Fine.

That doesn't mean the stars don't get preferential treatment. They clearly and obviously do. If that's what everyone wants, and what the league agrees on, it's not cheating, and it's not bad.

It's just not for me.

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Re: Did you see his interview.
 

Rutledge, Dick Bavetta, and others with his same seniority and playoff status, with bonuses and all makes close to 300,000 a year plus he has a retirement plan waiting for him. John Clougherty and others like him I have heard make around 120,000 a year with no retirement plan. A young college official just starting in D1 might make 20,000 while a rookie in the NBA makes around 90,000. I would hardly say that college officials make about the same. I have not heard of any college officials being asked to work the NBA and turning it down. Valentine was in the NBA program at one time but was never hired. I am not saying that NBA officials are better than the Valentine's, Hillary's, Cloughterty's ect. College and pro basketball are totally different games. I am sure Valentine is a better college official than a Bob Delaney and I am sure Delaney is a better pro official than a Valentine.

Chuck, good point about giving a foul to a different player, but I don't believe this makes it a documented fact that start players are given preferential treatment. If Steve Nash goes to the hole and Michael Jordan and Christian Laettner converge on him and both foul him and Jordan has 4 fouls and Laettner has one I would probably give the foul to Laettner as well. I think officials at all levels would do this. Now if Laettner never touched him and the official choose Laettner to give the foul to then I do believe this would be wrong. If the official did this in your above comments I hardly think you can blanket this to the whole staff and say the whole staff gives prefential treatment to stars.

Re: Re: Did you see his interview.
 

But you are assuming that the money is what is driving them to do it. That my friend is a big mistake. And $300,000 is for the very few. Not every official is going to make that. That is for the officials that stay around for several years. And the John Cloughtery's of the world, have other jobs. And who cares about a retirement plan if you have one of your own. You act like you cannot invest your own money. Bill Gates does not have a retirement plan I am sure, but he has as much money in his portfolio than his yearly salary.

And also, many of the NCAA Officials have other jobs, and do not have the travel schedule that an NBA Official has. How many things do they miss as compared to a D1 official that has more of the year to themselves. And better yet, a Big 10 Official for the most part lives in the Midwest for the most part. They are not travelling all over the country from New York to LA to Miami back to San Antonio all in a week or two. It is alot easier to go to Ann Arbor, then to Madison, then to Bloomington. And as an NBA ref, you might not have a job. So the pool of individuals that would even come close to making that kind of money year in, year out is very slim.

Re: Re: Re: Did you see his interview.
 

missing the point,
nba officials have little side jobs as well they own resturuants and other businesses as well as working in the nba. bob delaney is a motivational speaker and charges thousands of dollars to companies that want to have him speak. the nba is a full time job and wants its officials to make that their first priority that is why they are paid so well.

Re: Re: Did you see his interview.
 

I agree with this completely. The NBA guys, as a group, are the best anywhere. Probably, although I wouldn't stake my life on it, a couple of the best college guys are better than a couple of the worst NBA guys. But that doesn't take away from the quality of the NBA officials as a group.

Eli, I think this happens every single night. I see it --well, not all the time -- but quite often. And again, this is not a criticism of the officials; it's merely a reflection of how the league does bidness.

Chuck

Crew
 

I understand what you are saying, but my original point had nothing to do with money. I think that the fact that Cuban thinks that the best of the best in college want to do NBA games, is really out there. If you are a Big 10 Official, you can be around a lot longer than many of the coaches and defintely the players. You are not going to have to deal with a Luke Reackor (sp?) for 15 years. But if you have been officiating in the NBA for 20 years, you have had to deal with MJ off and on for around 15 years. At least in college it is much more about the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back. I would rather be a college ref than be an NBA ref any day. Not because the players are not good, but at least Indiana-Illinois is not going to change that drastically from year to year. But the Bulls-Lakers is going to be completely different from year to year because of free agency and many other factors that.

Rasheed Wallace is not going to respect a guy that makes only a small percentage compared to his yearly salary. At least most of the college players will never play or have a chance in the NBA. How many player Ts do you see during a college season as compared to an NBA season? That plays a big factor for me, I am not sure about everyone else. Money is not everything. And it is not like college officials do not make big money doing other things. Usually they are very well paid at other jobs.

Peace