Do we need this mechanic?

[Rita C]

I just read the changes for next year. One of the mechanics has us holding both arms out if there isn't a closely guarded situation. Supposedly this is to let coaches know if it isn't obvious.

I thought we already had something that communicated this. A five second count if they are, none if they aren't.

Rita

[Jurassic Referee]

Rita, it can't hurt.

[Back In The Saddle]

You've never run into a situation where an explicit "I'm not counting because the defender isn't close enough" signal wouldn't have helped? If communication is our best tool for managing coaches, then a new help in communicating can't be a bad thing, can it?

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I thought we already had something that communicated this. A five second count if they are, none if they aren't.

Rita

What if we have an official that is not paying attention (I know this would NEVER happen...but, humor me). Wouldn't the communication be the same, the official not having a count, even though there could indeed be a closely guarded situation?

This new signal just shows the coaches/fans/evaluators/etc. that the official is on top of the play...and he/she does indeed have a count or does not have a count because of the six feet guarding requirement.

I didn't use this signal before(well, almost never) ...but, if in our judgement we can communicate better with this signal...why not?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I just read the changes for next year. One of the mechanics has us holding both arms out if there isn't a closely guarded situation. Supposedly this is to let coaches know if it isn't obvious.

I thought we already had something that communicated this. A five second count if they are, none if they aren't.

Rita

It is a great mechanic. There have been many times I wish we had this mechanic during HS games. And it is not always obvious you should have a 5 second count, but coaches and players will claim that you should have a count and this mechanic gives them a reason. There are many times a defender is just standing there and doing nothing. You now can communicate to the world why you do not have a count instead of it looking like you just are incompetent.

Peace

[mick]

I agree with everyone.

The extended arms is a modified *shrug* [ ] which indicates that since the maximum 6' is imperfectly defined, the officials aren't quite sure, and therefore, the coaches shouldn't be certain of the rule either.

[Boiler14]

I actually wonder what took so long to bring it to HS.

[BillyMac]

IAABO has used this mechanic in Connecticut for several years. Previous to this, coaches would occassionally yell to us "Five seconds". Since we starting using this mechanic several years ago, we seldom hear this from coaches.

FYI, in 2006-07, "special" Connecticut mechanics included:
Arms extended not closely guarded signal.
Point to floor for two-point field goal try.
No long switches when foul is called in the backcourt and there is no change of possession or direction.
Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions.
Coaching Box must be marked. If home coach and/or home management refuse to designate coaching box with tape, the home team will not use a coaching box for that game. However, the visiting team will be allowed a coaching box. Notify Board Secretary or Commissioner the next day.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

FYI, in 2006-07, "special" Connecticut mechanics included:
Arms extended not closely guarded signal.
Point to floor for two-point field goal try.
No long switches when foul is called in the backcourt and there is no change of possession or direction.
Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions.
Coaching Box must be marked. If home coach and/or home management refuse to designate coaching box with tape, the home team will not use a coaching box for that game. However, the visiting team will be allowed a coaching box. Notify Board Secretary or Commissioner the next day.

I don't purport to be an expert on "standard" FED mechanics, but:

"Point to floor" -- always, or only when it's close to the three-point line? If it's the latter, then I don't think it's a "special" mechanic.

"No Long switches" -- If there is a change of posession, then you switch? IF so, that's unusual. MOst would have no long switches on any such occurrence, or switch on every foul.

"Team members congregating" and "Coaching Box" are rules, not mechanics.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions.

No different from the FED, although many don't enforce it.

Also, this isn't a mechanic.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"Point to floor" -- always, or only when it's close to the three-point line? If it's the latter, then I don't think it's a "special" mechanic.

Only when it's close.

"No Long switches" -- If there is a change of posession, then you switch? IF so, that's unusual. MOst would have no long switches on any such occurrence, or switch on every foul.

So A just scored, B is bringing the ball up-court and B1 commits a PC foul right around A's FT line. You don't switch in a two-person crew?

"Team members congregating" and "Coaching Box" are rules, not mechanics.

I thought NFHS recommended that each state come up with procedures for congregating before the game. Also, the CT state procedure specifies what should be done when a coaching box isn't present.

Don't like it? Don't move to our state.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

When the NCAA/CAA added this signal a number of years ago, I thought it was the dumbest, stupidest, most idiotic signal that was ever adopted. I have never used it in a college game or an AAU girls' game because if I am not counting, it means that there is no closing guarded situation. AND, I do not plan to ever use it in a H.S. game or any game using NFHS rules.

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I thought NFHS recommended that each state come up with procedures for congregating before the game. Also, the CT state procedure specifies what should be done when a coaching box isn't present.

Don't like it? Don't move to our state.

The state that Bob and I belong to have their own procedures as to how to deal with players near the center area during pre-game introductions and the coaching box enforcement. The home team is allowed the center court area during pre-game introductions and if a team has a special celebration like a school called the Quincy High School Blue Devils, a school can get a waiver from the IHSA to allow a waiver from the normal rule.

Also the coaching box was a major issue a couple of years ago. The IHSA wanted us to enforce rule very strictly and to give Ts to help enforce the strict rule. Well they have now back off a little but still have a heavy emphasis to coaching staying completely in the box.

BTW, here is an example of a pre-game celebration. I was actually working this game but this school got a waiver to use this introduction from the IHSA. According to NF rules this would be outlawed.

Quincy High School Pre-Game introduction

Peace

[lrpalmer3]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

When the NCAA/CAA added this signal a number of years ago, I thought it was the dumbest, stupidest, most idiotic signal that was ever adopted. I have never used it in a college game or an AAU girls' game because if I am not counting, it means that there is no closing guarded situation. AND, I do not plan to ever use it in a H.S. game or any game using NFHS rules.

MTD, Sr.

Interesting. What about trying to maintain consistency between officials' signals on the court? Do you believe that all officials should have the flexibility to put aside or add signals according to their opinion?

[lrpalmer3]

To me, this mechanic is more useful to the players on the court. Both the defender and ball handler can see whether or not the count is on without explicitly looking at the official.

If the players are on your right and you are counting with your left hand, it's difficult for them to see if you simply drop you left hand to your side indicating that the count is off.