ap arrow question

[Dibbs]

Had a JV X-mas tournament last week and a ap arrow situation came up, which I need know if I handle it right.
My partner called a jump ball and B1 fouled A1 during the dead ball. My partner called a T on B1. The arrow is pointing towards B team. Player from team A shoots the two technicals and got the throw in at half court. I left the arrow pointing towards team B. I thought that the technical did not effect the arrow in this play. The only thing I could find to support this was in the case book 6.3.1b. So now I need some advise from someone with more experience then me. I'm not real sure I got this right?
Happy New Year!!

[ChuckElias]

You got it right, Dibbs. The AP arrow does not change until either (during an AP throw-in):

1) the team entitled to the throw-in completes the throw-in, OR

2) the team entitled to the throw-in commits a throw-in violation.

In your situation, neither of those two things happened, b/c the technical foul occurred prior to administering the AP throw-in. Therefore, the arrow stays where it was. Good job.

Chuck

[mick]

Originally posted by Dibbs
Had a JV X-mas tournament last week and a ap arrow situation came up, which I need know if I handle it right.
My partner called a jump ball and B1 fouled A1 during the dead ball. My partner called a T on B1. The arrow is pointing towards B team. Player from team A shoots the two technicals and got the throw in at half court. I left the arrow pointing towards team B. I thought that the technical did not effect the arrow in this play. The only thing I could find to support this was in the case book 6.3.1b. So now I need some advise from someone with more experience then me. I'm not real sure I got this right?
Happy New Year!!

Dibbs,
What Chuck said.

When you don't know who gets the ball to resume play, use the arrow.
In your play, you knew who was supposed to throw in the ball after the "T", ...thus, no need to use the arrow.

Good call.
mick

[JRutledge]

when you put the ball at the disposal of the team that had the arrow during a AP situation. This is not one of them because a Technical Foul was called that nullified you even using the AP Procedure in the first place. AP Procedure only applys when you put the ball in play, not before, like when you called the Jump Ball.

Hope that helps.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
when you put the ball at the disposal of the team that had the arrow during a AP situation. This is not one of them because a Technical Foul was called that nullified you even using the AP Procedure in the first place. AP Procedure only applys when you put the ball in play, not before, like when you called the Jump Ball.

The AP arrow does not change "when you put the ball at the disposal of the team that had the arrow." The arrow is changed when the team entitled to the throw-in completes the throw-in, or the team entitled to the throw-in commits a throw-in violation.

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef

The AP arrow does not change "when you put the ball at the disposal of the team that had the arrow." The arrow is changed when the team entitled to the throw-in completes the throw-in, or the team entitled to the throw-in commits a throw-in violation.

Actually that is what I meant to say, but I forgot the "throw-in must end" line. My point basically that you could have several opportunities to have a foul any or violation that would not change the arrow. My bad!!

Peace

[Brian Watson]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Actually that is what I meant to say, but I forgot the "throw-in must end" line. My point basically that you could have several opportunities to have a foul any or violation that would not change the arrow. My bad!!

Peace

Rut - Did you mean to say violation? A violation will change the arrow, only a foul keeps it in the same direction.

[Dibbs]

Thanks to you all for the response! I must be getting better!!

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brian Watson

Rut - Did you mean to say violation? A violation will change the arrow, only a foul keeps it in the same direction.

It depends on when the violation happens. You do not lose the arrow just because a violation happens or a foul for that matter. But that is another discussion all together.

[Mark Dexter]

Assume a jump ball is called, and the arrow favors A. What violation could A commit that would not cause them to lose the arrow? I can't think of any off of the top of my head.

6-3-4: Arrow reversed when the throw-in team violates.
6-3-5: AP throw-in opportunity lost only if throw-in team violates.
9-2: All of the throw-in violations are live ball situations.

On a related note, I timed a varsity girls' game tonight, and there were about 20 jump balls called. One official, however, used one hand up to stop the clock, then used the two thumbs signal. Anyone else seen this?

[paulis]

Yes! I started doing this when I would immediately go up with two thumbs while my partner is signaling for a foul. Now, I kill the clock with the open hand up and take a quick look at my partner to make sure he/she does not have a foul then go up with two thumbs.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
On a related note, I timed a varsity girls' game tonight, and there were about 20 jump balls called. One official, however, used one hand up to stop the clock, then used the two thumbs signal. Anyone else seen this?

No. I usually blow while taking a few steps in to make sure there's no scuffle and then give the thumbs up. A raised hand is not required, but if it works, go with it.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Assume a jump ball is called, and the arrow favors A. What violation could A commit that would not cause them to lose the arrow? I can't think of any off of the top of my head.

To be fair, Rut didn't say it had to be a violation by the throw-in team. The defensive team could commit a violation (breaking the throw-in plane), but the arrow would not switch. I think the point was that a violation or foul does not necessarily cause a change of arrow. Only a throw-in violation causes a change in the arrow.

On a related note, I timed a varsity girls' game tonight, and there were about 20 jump balls called. One official, however, used one hand up to stop the clock, then used the two thumbs signal. Anyone else seen this?

Never. Sounds ugly. Just go with the thumbs up.

Chuck