Touching ball to floor
 

This concerns the situation where a player has picked up his dribble and is holding the ball and sort of leans over and he touches the ball to the floor. By rule this isn't a dribble but from the stands comes the usual nonsense hollering for a double dribble.

At some pint in history does anybody know if this used to be considered a dribble? Or is it an NBA rule or something? I'm just wondering where the confusion might come from.

The confusion comes a lack of oxygen caused from fans having their heads placed firmly in a methane-filled environment.

BTW - there's no such violation as a "double" dribble - the correct term is "illegal" dribble. Next time a coach yells at you for not calling a "double" dribble, tell him there's no such thing. Fun will ensue. ;)

Sounds like it could be a great time. I'll try that this summer with the AAU types and let you know how it goes. I'll also tell them about how there is no such thing as over the back and reaching. If we turn on a camera we might have an episode for the Jerry Springer Show.

ive said that before -- along with over the back and reach

the usual response is "of course there is" / "where did they find you i am going to tell whoever is running this tourney that you dont know the rules"


my response to that is always "be my guest"

Haven't you ever said to a coach, "Ya' wanna' bet on it, Sparky?" Tell him you have a rule book in your bag and you can look it up. If he's right, you'll give him $100, but if you're right, he has to hand wash and wax your car. I haven't had a coach take me up on this yet. :cool:

Agreed. The "wanna bet $100" line creates instant dead air. I reserve that only for the summer AAU types. I haven't used it on a real coach yet.

I did this a couple of years ago and the coach refused to pay up. After the game (boys AAU) ended, the coach and 3 of his players walked by where my partner and I were changing shoes before leaving the gym. He remarked that I was wrong on a call (I had made the bet with him earlier). I pulled out the rule book and showed him where I was right. He said it didn't matter, because he wasn't going to pay up. His players immediately started pointing fingers and laughing at him for losing. Man, he was PO'd. That was the best part of the game. ;)

Summer coaches are people too. :)

You're assuming all coaches are people. Never assume. ;)

I think he miss-spelled "some," as in "some coaches are...." I don't think I can disagree with that.

While there is no such violation as a "double dribble", obviously a double dribble is a violation. This is akin to saying there a "hack" is not a foul. If you've been hacked, you know it's a foul. It hurts, LOL.

As someone pointed out here recently, NFHS just writes the rule books. A lot of the terminology pre-dates the NFHS. Just because the Fed changes its jargon doesn't mean the rest of the world has to follow suit.

Calling a "discontinue" or a "carry" or a "palm" or a "double dribble" an "illegal dribble" may be technically correct, but nowhere near as easy to say or as descriptive.

Why not just have one foul call, for that matter. Why hold, block, push, trip, etc.? Why not just "Foul"?

While they don't HAVE to follow suit, it sure makes things easier when everyone is talking the same language....and in a way that makes sense.

a what????

What's undescriptive or difficult about carry or palm?
Isn't the goal to have a sufficiently clear and consistent but brief communication. THe problem with local, non-official "jargon" is that it varies and has different meanings to different people. It can convey an entirely different message than intended. We all know what is meant by "reach" but some believe that it can be a foul just for reaching, without contact, simply because of the unofficial terminology that is poorly thougth out.

It is?

If a player's dribble ends by the dribble touching an opponent, and the player immediately dribbles again, you're saying that the "double dribble" is a violation?

Sorry. Can't agree with that.

I've had a HS coach bet me his entire year's salary that it's a violation if the jumper is the first person to control the ball after it's touched the floor. I should have gone double-or-nothing with him so I could have bought a burger and a Pepsi with my winnings. :D

Palming (Carrying) Violation ???
 

Someone mentioned palming or carrying earlier in this thread, which deals with proper NFHS language.

Please help me out. I can't find anything about palming or carrying being a violation in Rule 9 Violations. Is it mentioned somewhere else in the rule book?

I knows that palming or carrying is a violation and has a violation signal, number 20, but where in the rule book is it actually called a violation?

It seems to me that carrying or palming may be a violation of Rule 9-4 Travel, because while the player is palming or carrying, he or she may be traveling with the ball.

Or palming or carrying can be a violation of rule 9-5 Illegal Dribble, because while palming or carrying the ball, the player has stopped one dribble and will start another dribble.

Help???

Rule 4-15-4(b) and case book play 4.15.4SitA.

Thanks
 

From Jurassic Referee: Rule 4-15-4(b) and case book play 4.15.4SitA.

Thanks Jurassic Referee.

Since this thread, at one point, was about precise rule book language, the point that I was trying to make was that according to Rule 9, palming is not an actual violation, but rather, according to Rule 4, palming ends the dribble, so the actual, precise violation would be, in my opinion, an illegal dribble or a travel.

In any case, when I see it, I'm blowing my whistle, using signal #20, and stating verbally "Carry" or "Palming"

This just made me almost spit up my drink. I was at a tourney last weekend, and a player got called OOB when he came from OOB onto the court, and then was the first to touch the ball. I said that wasn't a good call, and one of the other coaches on our team disagreed with me. We started arguing about it, and bet $10 on it. I saw the guy later in the week, and he still said I was wrong, and we rolled the bet up to $100. I probably should owe something to you all, because I probably wouldn't have known that rule if it wasn't for this board.:)

You can donate my portion to Meds for Mark, one of our board's charities :D