Coast to Coast Referee School
 

I noticed that Ron Garretson and Joe DeRosa put this camp on.

Has anyone ever been? Is it more of an Identification Camp (NCAA D1) or is this more of a learning camp?

It is a teaching camp, I went back in 2005 and they teach you some good philosophy but if your going looking to get hired you will be disappointed.

Dave not to be mean but if you said to an NBA referee that they teach good "philosophies", 99% of them would rip you a new one. The NBA referees ref according to performance standards and guidelines, they don't have "philosophies". There's no "he got hit and it didn't put him at a disadvantage, so I didn't blow" BS. If he got hit or bumped, then he got hit or bumped, hence you blow the whistle. If it's marginal or inconclusive then you leave it alone. They referee RSBQ (Rhythm, Speed, Balance, Quickness) on drives to the basket. It is part of their guidelines, it is NOT a philosophy. There is rarely any judgement calls having to be made when it comes to hands in the post game. If you have 2 hands, 2 forearms or a locked arm it is automatic. It's a straight forward guideline to referee with.

As far as the camp goes. There is only one open now and it is the one in Orlando. there will be about 13 NBA refs teaching there. If you have the funds, I would suggest going. If you want to be the best you have to learn from the best and the best will be there teaching. There will be some assignors there because of friendships with the Clinicians, but it is mainly an NBA exposure camp.

Go Go Go Go Go if you can.

But their guidelines are obviously the result of a particular philosophy that is different from the overall philosophy at the high school or college level.

No, but there is "marginal contact" BS. It's stated differently, but it's the same thing -- judgment.

Using the word philosophy means that there are many different ones, and that people can use different ones. In the pro game, it is a guideline, meaning that this is how it will be called, and if you don't call it like this you didn't get the play right. Philosophies are vague and there are too many floating around and that causes more inconsistencies in the game.

The guidelines are not under a philosophy. The committee who was working with the rules thought that this would make for better basketball, so they instituted these RULES or guidelines. When you have to call something that is stated in the rules that doesn't involve judgement, that is not a philosophy. Philosophies can make things a "should I or should I not" such as the TOWER PHILOSOPHY. When you have to start doing that alot, in takes your play calling skills down and you will get more plays wrong by doing so.

Any relationship between the pro whack, hack, hold, travel and knock people into the 3rd row crap and real basketball is purely coincidental. The NBA officiating guidelines are set for entertainment reasons only. I've been officiating basketball for one helluva long time, and I can't tell you what a foul <b>IS</b> in the NBA. Anybody who can try to say that contact is called consistently in the NBA is simply full of doodoo imo. They might actually have some guidelines but I've never been able to figure them out. They're consistently inconsistent imo. And as for <b>rules</b> like traveling or palming, I'd like to know what the NBA guidelines for those are. They sureashell don't call them by their own rules.

The NBA.....unwatchable, except by the people who also think Pro Wrasslin' is real.:D

There might be dumber things that an official could do than try to use pro philosophies in the high school or college game, but I can't think of any off-hand.

You could use Old School's patented philosophies. If not worse, it would at least have to be pretty damn close.

Uh......Joe assigns several JUCO and NAIA leagues in the Ohio area. So guys in the midwest could possibly benefit.

Whats the saying....you never know who is watching?

I would say it's more of an NBA camp. Geared towrds the NBA game, which could really screw you up if your aspirations are not to be an NBA official. The NBA is so different then NCAA and HS that they want you doing this and nothing else. You start trying to do both and it will really mess you up, imho. A great camp to go to if you can afford it, but no what it is geared towards. I don't think they will be stressing a lot of NCAA stuff there. If you are really good and they decide to bring you in. You are off the NCAA path, permantly.

That's not true at all about working pro and college. You can do both and many do. For example, Brian Forte, son of NBA ref Joe Forte, refs in the SEC and refereed the finals in The NBA D-League Playoffs. That is just one of many who do that. Don't think that will be the case at Coast to Coast. Yes you will do NBA switches and if you choose to you can work without a lanyard and report with 2 hands, but those things don't mean anything compared to the quality instruction that you will get there. Cause at the end of the day those guys want you to do one thing and that is get plays right. Period.

And that is different from any other camp in the world....how?:confused:

Haven't you been to the OSHA Camp? There they want you to hold the safety of the players above getting the call right.

It's true...it's true...

I stand corrected.......:D

I disagree. I don't think there's many out there that's doing NBA ball that is doubling back working upper level college men's basketball. College assigners don't particularly care about some of the philosophy's of the NBA teachings. It can also get you in trouble mechanic wise and those guys trying out for college that have NBA mechanics, stands out like a sore thumb in camps. I will agree the camp focuses on getting plays right, but that's NBA right and there's a big difference between NBA right and NCAA right. Bottom line, if you have aspirations to be an NCAA Men's official, stay the hell away from an NBA camp. That is not money well spent, imho.

Learn the difference between "NBA" and "NBDL."

Well, somebody <b>has</b> to ask, and I got tired of waiting. Iow, it might as well be me......

1)What is "NBA right"?
2)What is "NCAA right"?
3) What is the big difference?

You will have to go to an NBA camp to find out JR. What I can share is NBA wants you more out on the court in the Trail position, NCAA feels differently. New term for you JR, "Pinch the paint" ever hear of that? NCAA don't want you refereeing in the paint. Some of the things I agree with from the NBA prospective. It's like they took the NCAA code and expanded on it, really go into details on a lot of it and most of it is good, however, it is not what they want of you from a NCAA propsective. Just about everything I learn and used from NBA camp I get called on in NCAA camp, imho. And last and perhaps the most important is the habits. You get into a NBA habit of doing things and it's hard to break going back into NCAA.

Shoulda have known better than to ask....

"NBA Right" versus "NCAA Right".......yeah, right........

It's too bad that you're having problems going from your NBA games to your NCAA games.:rolleyes:

Gobbledegook 101!

1) block/charge play on one end where it's bang bang and the player gets perpendicular to the offensive player's path and takes it in the torso(OFFENSIVE FOUL). Go the other way and we have a similar type bang bang play, but the defender is not perpendicular to offensive player's path(BLOCK). IOW, they are all about getting plays right.

2) Same as above, except you have a charge at both ends. Getting one right and one wrong. That's getting 50% of your plays right. IMO this is not a good thought process to have. Yes I think you should understand what plays you have had at each end but you should let each play stand on its own merit.

The example you gave is not the same as, or "IOW", getting plays right. You told us the correct way to call the play. Fine, we all want to call it correctly (with the exception of one notable idiot on this forum), whether we're in HS, college, or pro.

That's because in NCAA, it is a charge at both ends. Being perpendicular has no bearing on the play in the NCAA ruleset. That's why we talk about the "pro philosophy", regardless of who doesn't like it. In college and HS, getting to the spot legally is what matters. But in the pro game, where offense seems to be favored, the defender not only has to get to the spot first, but has to assume the correct posture. That's a difference in rules, which is based on a difference in philosophy.

It is NOT, as you say in your post "getting one right and one wrong".

That explanation doesn't make any sense at all to me. You've got two completely <b>different</b> calls at either end of the court because the plays are completely different. In one, you've got a perpendicular defender making his defensive stance legal; in the other, you've got a defender that isn't perpendicular, thus making his defensive stance illegal. Apples and oranges....and completely different plays that have to be called completely different ways, by any ruleset. You just call plays like these by the rules, the same as you're supposed to call NFHS and NCAA games. What you're talking about is exactly the same as a defender having LGP at one end and not having LGP at he other end. Of course you're going to call those plays differently. They <b>ARE</b> different.

You're getting the play wrong in your example because you're not applying the same rule properly at both ends of the court. That's got nothing to do with anything called "NBA wrong". That's called "blowing a call" and it happens in all rulesets.

How is "NBA right" any different than "NCAA right" or "NFHS right"? As far as I can see, in all cases you just make the call according to the applicable ruleset. There's no difference at all.

Except for maybe that l'il habit in the NBA of giving the call to a star over a scrubbie......:D

Not at the camps I've gone to.