Situation - help please
 

Team B is in the bonus. A1 is driving towards his basket when B1 establishes LGP in A1's path. A1 jumps in the air to attempt a shot but before contacting B1, passes the ball off. While the ball is in the air between A1 and A2, A1 contacts B1 and sends them both to the floor.

IF you have a foul here, what is your call?

a) PC foul on A1, no FTs
b) Team control foul, no FTs
c) common foul, B1 to shoot FT(s)

B. Team control during the pass. Foul is against the passer, so it's a TC foul.

Case 4.19.7 Sit D(a)

Let's go with 4-12-1 and 4-12-2. Once A1 lets go of the ball for a pass, he no longer has control, but his team still does.

B is the correct option, and this play is a good topic for pre-game discussion - both about who is going to look where and how the foul should be assessed.

Ya, that's what I thought too (B) but the practice test I took last night said differently. It said it should be (c), common foul and B1 shoots FTs at the other end.

Was it a Fed practice test?

It was an association tasted based on Fed rules. They must have just kicked that question.

I agree that the correct answer is (b), but do not forget that both Team Control Fouls and Player Control Fouls are a Common Fouls.

MTD, Sr.

...But [maybe] with shots.

When would you get shots for a team control foul or player control foul? :confused:

I dunno. <iiiii>

You never get shots on a player control foul.

So do you ever get shots on a team control foul?

I was checking to make sure and the answer is no. You dont shoot free throw on a team control foul. Look in your case book under 4.19.7. It gives examples of team control fouls.

I know, that's why I was confused about Mick's response that said "(maybe) with shots". I still don't quite see what he was saying.

But you never shoot free throws for any team control or player control foul.

Can you clarify?

In an obviously poorly written response to Mark T calling a team control a common foul, which it is, I metaphorically miscued an exemplary example of why the common foul is not a straight-up match to the definition of a PC/TC.

I guess my post was not intuitively obvious to every casual observer with it being common knowledge that free throws are not awarded on TC/PC fouls.

But I am really sorry I even posted.

Sorry !

No problem, I understand, but others may not.

I know you think I understood what you were trying to say, etc, etc, etc

I hear that, Franktown !! :)

As others have said...b. But, now that we have the TC foul, it is almost redundant to have the PC foul too. In all but one case, they are exactly the same.

The team control foul is a common foul commited by a player on the team that has control of the ball. A player holding or dribbling the ball technically commits a PC foul but nothing about it is differnet than the TC foul...same action, same time period, same penalty, just that the player also has player control.

The ONLY part that is different is the airborne shooter part.

They could effectively combine the TC and PC rules into a singe type of foul and add the airborne shooter clause to cover that and they'd have only one rule.

How about:

An offensive foul is a common foul
a. committed by a player while holding or dribbling the ball inbounds;
b. committed by a player whose team has team control at the time of the foul;
c. committed by an airborne shooter;
d. committed during a throw-in by a player on the team entitled to the throw-in, until the ball is controlled inbounds.

("d." is kind of awkward, but it's shorter than "committed by a player whose team is entitled to a throw-in; such foul being committed after the ball has become live to begin the throw-in and before the ball is controlled inbounds".)

MAJOR DISCLAIMER: This is NOT the current rule. It's my suggestion for how to re-write the rule so that we would have one type of foul for all "offensive"-type fouls, which might -- someday -- include fouls by the offense during a throw-in. Sorry for the confusion!

Um, dont think there is team control in HS on throw-ins. You might want to check statement D.

You might want to check the thread on the new NFHS rules...

Oh are the new rule in effect now or when the season begins?

Well, around here we use start using them at all of our summer camps and clinics so coaches and players get used to them before next November when it counts...so I would say they are in effect now.

My mistake then!

The only change having to do with throw-in's is that the throw-in ends when the ball is "legally" touched. I don't think they changed the status of no team control during a throw-in.

Team control (offensive foul) during a throw-in?? For NFHS?? Really?

Really! Scrappy was talking about how the rule could possibly be re-written to combine PC and TC fouls, <b>not</b> what the rule actually is now. Neither you or IREFU2 comprehended that.

Ah yes. I see what he was saying now. Thanks for clearing that up, JR.

Not this year anyway....

Yes, that's right. Sorry for the confusion. I've edited that post to make it clearer.

What they did wrong was to use a test from 5 or 10 years ago, without checking the details carefully.

Comprehension is a state of mind in which only the one trying to comprehend can determine.

I make one little post and generates two pages of posts. As Bugs Bunny would say: "Ain't I a stinker." :D

MTD, Sr.