Coming back inbounds after a save.

bossref · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 05, 2001, 09:34pm

I am looking for either a better explanation
or a validation of what I use.
When a player who saves a loose ball is carried off the court because of his momemtum and wants to come back in
to play the ball....
I hear players and coaches complaining that he can't come
back in and be first to touch the ball.
I know he can and I explain his legal return this way:
"He must have SOMETHING IN & NOTHING OUT!"
and of course he must return at approximately the same
spot he left.
Anyone respond to this differently (or better)? Thanks.

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 05, 2001, 09:43pm

It's as simple as there is no palyer control during this play. As long as he doesn't touch the ball while he's OOB, and the ball doesn't go OOB, the play is legal.

crew · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 12:00am

a player may tap (no player control) the ball step out come back in and be the first to touch the ball. if he (in your judgement) passes (player control) steps out and comes back in he cannot be the first person to touch the ball.
i hope this helps!

BktBallRef · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 01:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by crew
a player may tap (no player control) the ball step out come back in and be the first to touch the ball. if he (in your judgement) passes (player control) steps out and comes back in he cannot be the first person to touch the ball.
i hope this helps!

Rule reference please.

crew · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 01:32am

nc2a rule book page br 94. rule 7 art 1. case book play: a.r. 1. a1 blocks a pass near the end line. the ball falls to the floor inbounds but a1 who is off balance, falls out side the endline. A1 returns, secures control of the ball, and dribbles. ruling: legal. a1 has not left the playing court voluntarily and was not in control of the ball when leaving the playing court.

rule referenced.

bossref · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 01:34am

I totally understand the rule.
What I'm trying to find out is:
Does anyone have a better explanation
to give a player or coach?
I say, "it's OK if he has something in and nothing out"
with respect to his being back on the court.

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 01:40am

No. Reference the rule that backs up the statement below.

Originally posted by crew
if he (in your judgement) passes (player control) steps out and comes back in he cannot be the first person to touch the ball.

------------------------------------------------------------

bossref, there's no cute answer to give. Just tell him that there was no player control, he didn't touch the ball while he was OOB and the ball didn't touch OOB. Legal play.

bossref · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 02:01am

Finally an answer that satisfies my curiousity.
Thanks.
BTW I was kinda looking for a quick response
type that you called "cutesy".
I'm always in search of quick, 2-3 word responses
that I can pass on to the guys who work with
(and for) me.
We work tons and tons of rec ball and need answers quickly while the clock is running.
In my former days of organized HS and college ball
I would answer just (or similarly) as you suggested.
thanks again.

crew · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 04:03am

bktballref- this is a tough reference to find and is very vague. the best i found is in the 2000/2001 hs simplified and illustrated manual, page 50, 7-1-1;4-15-5. the only other thing i can do is use deduction from the other play. it states leaving the court voluntarily and having control. which leads to if he has control and leaves the court voluntarily/involunyarily it is a violation to be the first to touch the ball. i will reply later with better and correct info. could you ref. that a legal play? i looked (not very hard) and could not.

Jurassic Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 05:46am

Quote:

Originally posted by bossref
Finally an answer that satisfies my curiousity.
Thanks.
BTW I was kinda looking for a quick response
type that you called "cutesy".
I'm always in search of quick, 2-3 word responses
that I can pass on to the guys who work with
(and for) me.
We work tons and tons of rec ball and need answers quickly while the clock is running.
In my former days of organized HS and college ball
I would answer just (or similarly) as you suggested.
thanks again.

Try saying,"it's OK,he didn't mean it".That'll make 'em think.

Jurassic Referee · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 06:00am

Quote:

Originally posted by crew
bktballref- this is a tough reference to find and is very vague. the best i found is in the 2000/2001 hs simplified and illustrated manual, page 50, 7-1-1;4-15-5. the only other thing i can do is use deduction from the other play. it states leaving the court voluntarily and having control. which leads to if he has control and leaves the court voluntarily/involunyarily it is a violation to be the first to touch the ball. i will reply later with better and correct info. could you ref. that a legal play? i looked (not very hard) and could not.

Better explain the quote,"which leads to if he has control and leaves the court voluntarily/involuntarily it is a violation to be the first to touch the ball"too.If it is involuntary,it's a violation?

bob jenkins · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 09:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by bossref
I totally understand the rule.
What I'm trying to find out is:
Does anyone have a better explanation
to give a player or coach?
I say, "it's OK if he has something in and nothing out"
with respect to his being back on the court.

I use, "That's the NFL rule. In HS / NCAA basketball, it's legal."

Hawks Coach · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 11:14am

If a coach claims "He can't do X"(fill in the blank), with X not being proscribed by the NF rules, I would have the same answer every time. "No rule agaist that coach," or "that's not what the rules say, coach." It's hard to explain a rule that doesn't exist during the flow of the game. Later, if they want the rule explained, you can do it.

BktBallRef · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 06, 2001, 07:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by crew
bktballref- this is a tough reference to find and is very vague.

That's why I asked for one, because there's not one that supports that position.

Quote:

the best i found is in the 2000/2001 hs simplified and illustrated manual, page 50, 7-1-1;4-15-5. the only other thing i can do is use deduction from the other play. it states leaving the court voluntarily and having control. which leads to if he has control and leaves the court voluntarily/involunyarily it is a violation to be the first to touch the ball. i will reply later with better and correct info. could you ref. that a legal play? i looked (not very hard) and could not.

Unless he touches the ball while OOB, or he's dribbling when he touches the ball, I don't have player control and I don't have a violation.

crew · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 07, 2001, 01:28am

bktballref-here is abetter description. a player is dribbling, while not touching the ball he steps on the oob. steps back in and resumes dribbling. violation, right? when saving from oob. and the player controls the ball(drops, tosses, throws) it is the start of a dribble. therefor he cannot be the first to touch the ball. you have to put a couple of rules together to get the out come.
remeber a tap is not the start of a dribble. does this make more sense?