A couple of questions
 

1) Team A has the ball out of bounds for a throw-in near the division line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who jumps from Team A's frontcourt, catches the ball in mid-air and lands in the back court.

Backcourt violation or no?

2) Is it possible to have a team-control intentional or flagrant foul?

No violation.

No you cannot. A Team Control foul has nothing to do with intentional or flagrant fouls.

Peace

Ok, I get it now. That's because there is no team or player control on a throw-in, correct?



I'm getting caught up on this one. I'm having trouble finding in the rule book where it defines a team control foul. My (limited) understanding is that when Team A is in control, illegal contact off the ball which is penalized is a team control foul. Thus, a intentional or flagrant foul off the ball would also be considered a team-control foul.

Where am I messing up?

Thanks.

DC,

I don't have my book with me, but I might check the definitions of all the fouls, and if I recall correctly, somewhere in there it will say that team-control doesn't apply to those fouls. Perhaps look under the definition of team control.

Not seeing what you're describing. Here's how 4-19-3 and -4 read:

ART. 3 .... An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul which....

ART. 4 .... A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent or savage nature....

Then, a team-control foul is defined simply as:

ART. 7 .... A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member of the team that has control.

Okay, the lightbulb just turned on. If it is an intentional or flagrant foul, it's not a "common foul" as ART. 7 describes. Thus, by definition, it can't be a team-control foul.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

That's exactly right. Team control foul is a common foul. It's the same as if the dribbler punched a defender. Yes, there's player control; but it's not a PC foul, because it's not a common foul, it's a flagrant foul.

Just because the fouler has the ball doesn't make the foul a PC foul. A PC foul must, like the team control foul, be a common foul. Intentional and flagrant fouls do not apply.

Not yet you don't. No backcourt violation because the rule specifically exludes what otherwise would be a back-court violation on the throw-in. Team control or not on the throw-in is not a factor.

Actually, team control is a factor. The rule states, "The team not in control...." and provides "during a throwin" as an example. Therefore, if team control is established in NFHS during a throwin, the rules will need to be adjusted in order to keep this from being a violation.

why is there no bc for this? In fiba this is a violation (how ever there is team control during a throw in under fiba rules) but
When the player catches the ball, in mid -air, he has control, and he comes from his fc and lands in his bc. That sounds like a bc violation to me, is there a ncaa case play who say it isn't then?

Because we are not using FIBA rules.

Also the NCAA does not use a casebook. They do use some rulings in the rulebook, but that is not relevant to this discussion. There is a reason FIBA is a separate organization. :rolleyes:

Peace

How much time ya' got? ;)

I don't have a rule book in front of me, but I don't think you an get team control until the throw-in is over. Please give me a scenario if I am mistaken.

The reason is because there is a specific exception set up in rules on a throw-in (9-9-3). Otherwise, it would be considered a violation if the player jumped from the front court, secured the ball in the air (player and team control inbounds, front court status), and landed in the back court. The exception in NFHS rules allow for the player to do this, even land with the first foot in the front court, and the second foot in the back court, without penalty. The other exception is to allow a defensive player B1 to make the steal during a live ball inbounds and jump from B's front court to back court without penalty.

I'm not sure they would need to adjust much, because of the throw-in exception already in place (9-9-3).

The exception depends upon the team not being in control; remove this aspect, and the exception doesn't apply. It only needs tweaking, but....

Backcourt ??
 

During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not a backcourt violations. In both cases team control, a player holding or dribbling the ball, has not yet been established.

During a throwin or jump ball, any player; or a defensive player, in making a steal; may legally jump from his or her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor, and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or the backcourt. These three situations are not backcourt violations.

1. This is NOT a backcourt violation and the reason is 9-9-3 as others have already written. That rule specifically exempts a player under these conditions from committing a backcourt violation. BTW he establishes both player and team control the moment that he catches the ball while airborne. He just gets a free pass when he lands in the backcourt because of the rule.

2. The definition of a team control foul is that it is a COMMON foul. The defintion of a common foul is "a personal foul which is neither flagrant nor intentional nor committed against a player trying or tapping for a field goal nor a part of a double, simultaneous or multiple foul."

Therefore, flagrant and intentional fouls cannot be team control fouls because the definition says so.