Great movie btw. Sort of along the same lines, it's hard to believe that the timeframe of the movie Soylent Green is 2002.

"It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They're making our food out of people. Next thing they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've gotta tell them. You've gotta tell them!"

(btw Bob we might be making a mistake discussing these old movies in public...wouldn't want anyone to think we're "old people")

Get a bottle of Grecian Formula, and you can ref till you're 98.

I posted this in another thread, but it seems appropriate here as well.

Check this 87 year old official out.

http://cbs2chicago.com/video/?id=303...ort.com&cid=29

A fact of life is that we are all products of our experiences. Thus, our view of the world is different in our 20's and 30's than it is in our 40's and 50's.

Age isn't a learning experience, experience is a learning experience. What the younger set will discover eventually is that there is no universal truth about aging or about physcial ability at any age.

I learned to respect the physical prowress of those older than me when a 70 year old kicked my a$$ in a pick-up racquetball game at the Y when I was 22.

There are several 60+ and a few 70 year olds in our basketball association. Some should hang it up. Some know their limitations and work an appropriate level of ball, and some can run rings around a 20 year old.

Age isn't the issue. Performance is the issue. Any blanket policy would rob the activity of some excellent officals at all levels. Of course that would mean more games for 20 year olds. Maybe that's what this is really about.

Amen.

Similarly, it would be just as ridiculous imo to put in a policy that you couldn't officiate D1 or NBA games <b>before</b> the age of...say...30 or 35 because you aren't experienced or mature enough yet to work at those levels until then. Or maybe even establish an age requirement that you must be a minimum of 25 years old before you can officiate a high school varsity game, for the same reasons. That would be Nevadian logic of the finest kind also.

Think that your son, the up-and-coming baseball umpire, would like that one, Garth?:)

So if I am reading Nevada correctly, he wants us to believe that someone with less experience who is NOT better than someone with more experience should be given important playoff games so that they can get experience...that makes absolutely no sense at all. There are a myriad of ways that the "younger" official can get experience and become better than the more experienced official...there are some people on this board who know me personally and have heard me say tell "younger" officials - "Come and get me". If you want my games then you need to be better than me and prove to the boss that you should have those games over me - and there are officials older than me telling me the same thing. It isn't about age, it's about how good the official is...

And as for Juggling Referee's comments, what that tells me is that you happen to know some older officials who shouldn't be working that level...bet you know some older officials who are still pretty freaking good at it, too!

Probably couldn't keep up???? I know you. Right now you would get winded walking to the beer fridge that you have in your bedroom so that you don't have to walk downstairs to the kitchen. By the way, all, he also purchased a bar fridge for his third floor entertainment room so he wouldnt have to walk all the way to the second floor refrig!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Decent shape my a$$. Quit reading this forum and get your butt to that yoga class.

This will teach you to call me out!!!!

Doesn't Bball-junkie work for Brad? If so I commend him on creating exactly the proper manager/employee environment! Great work! I can tell you from my vast experience (but not enough experience to be declared ready for the soylent green factory! :eek: ) that it's very important to have a well-trained boss!

:D

Let's be clear.... I DO NOT WORK FOR BRAD!!!!

Good attitude!

:)

Yep, sure is. I happen to think that both of those make good sense. There is no way that a 21 year-old is ready to control a HS environment.

There are 19 and 20 year olds controlling professional baseball games.

This is not just the opinion of one individual in his 30s. It is the stance taken by those who run the world's most popular sport. (The FIFA board which runs world soccer.) These people are not just young'uns either. They have significant experience in both sport and life. So how does that fit with your theory?

Why are people so resistant to this idea which could greatly improve officiating? Is it due to self-interest? Hmmmm....


Ok, so how many of those officials take a fitness test each year? How are they tested? What drills are they put through? How is their "performance" graded? Are they ranked by their level of physical ability as well as what others think of their judgment, experience, and rules book test score?

For those in their 60's and 70's which you say should hang it up, are they still getting games? Why? It seems that they don't share your opinion of them. How do you feel when you have to work with these folks? Do you think that it is good for the HS game that they are out there?

What measures does your area take to assign games according to merit instead of merely by seniority?

I guess a veteran that has fought in the war can handle bombs flying around them but they cannot handle a HS game?

You really need to stop characterizing everything based on age. I am sure there are many 21 year olds that could not handle a HS game, but I am sure there are many that can. Some kids younger than 21 have done more in their lives than someone that is 30.

The thing about officiating is some people either has it and others will never get it. Age has little or nothing to do with how good you are as an official.

Peace

Yeah in the minor leagues with players who are barely out of HS. And I still believe that they are not ready for that. There is just not enough of an age gap for there to be the required respect factor with the participants. There isn't the proper sense of an authority figure.

There are 19 and 20 year olds running divisions in the military during a war. I guess war is not as hard as blowing the whistle in a game. :rolleyes:

Peace

Of course, there is nothing that can compare to being in the hostile situation of a war zone. That life experience changes a person forever. BTW it is the general opinion of most veterans who served that they were just scared kids who had no idea what they were getting involved in.

But, since you brought up military service, do you know what is the maximum age for the draft or enlistment? How about the reserves? I'm sure that you are aware that they all have age limits. Why? Why don't they just go on performance and evaluate each individual? ;)

Additionally, why does our country set an age limit to vote and to drink alcohol? Perhaps we believe as a society that people under those ages are not mature enough to make informed decisions in those areas. Why don't they evaluate each individual for those?

Because it's a stupid idea, but then again I will turn 51 before starting my 7th season. :cool:

You analogy does not fly. For one you said a 21 year old could not handle and there were example they could handle situations a lot tougher than a HS game. The Military is a completely different institution with completely different objectives. Officiating has little to do with the military. You cannot enter the military for medical reasons that you can officiate a basketball game. And the military does go on many performance evaluations. If you cannot do the job you will not be in the military very long. It is not like everyone that enlists in the military automatically stays in the military.

Once again another flawed argument. There are age limits for officiating games as well. That age is not 21 in any state that I am aware of. In my state I believe you can be 17 to get a license if you pass several requirements. And so what? I know 20 year olds that are out of shape and fat. Their age has little or nothing to do with that. Once again you are putting an arbitrary limit on people based on a personal belief. It has nothing to do with fact and you have not told us why automatically at age 50 other than a prejudice that has little basis.

Peace

Damn, I wish that I hadda known that back when I was 21.......and was in my <b>sixth</b> year of doing high school varsity games, in both football and basketball. And I had just became a white hat(Referee) in football too. Worked playoff games in both sports that year too. Geeze, now I find out that I wasn't ready for any of that. Bummer.:(

I also know guys that started doing T-ball games when they were 12/13 to make a few bucks, kept up with umpiring because they enjoyed it, and by the time that they hit 21 years old they had 8-9-10 years of experience. I'd like to be there, Nevada, when you tell people like that they're not ready to do a high school game.

We have a hard enough time getting and retaining officials in just about all sports. To arbitrarily tell good, solid officials who are both experienced and capable that we can't use them because they are either too young or too old is just simply asinine. To think that you can also set an imaginary date where an official <b>automatically</b> is unable to officiate further because it's the birthday, and instant and complete physical deterioration has set in, is just as asinine.

1. So let me get this straight. You are saying that you did VARSITY high school games when you were 15 and 16 and you claim that you were fully ready and capable of running the show? That's hogswash, and you know it. You had some other officials there who were adults that carried you. You made a few calls here and there and likely did a serviceable job, but didn't have an ounce of game control. Someone else did that for you. BTW times were vastly different forty years ago!

2. The people who start officiating youth games at 12/13 do gain some valuable experience, however, it is not proper to contend that they have 8,9, or 10 years of experience by the time they hit 21. Those early years of kiddie ball just don't equate the same way as someone who was 25 and started working freshman and jv games with local HS association. There is a big difference in the environment.

3. In fact, the hard time getting and retaining officials is the very reason that most of these people are still out there. If there were greater numbers of officials and stiffer competition for games, this issue would take care of itself, but instead I see many associations pander to the older veterans for fear that they might quit if they aren't still being given the "big game" thus leaving the association short-handed the next season. I've argued that watching these old-timers continue to get the premium assignments year after year is a greater problem. The younger officials become discouraged and call it quits after five or six years of being stuck behind the old guys. IMO that is the biggest cause of the lack of retention of officials. There was a discussion on here not so long ago about female officials up in the Portland area quitting because they felt that they couldn't break through and get playoff games. One poster wrote that many were just on the verge of receiving those assignments when they quit. Clearly a case of dissatisfaction with paying their dues and waiting their turn. How many officials are lost in this manner because the "experienced" official was chosen for the semi-final?

It has been my observation that once an official goes to the top, he never goes back down. Most associations are very good about promoting deserving officials, but are very poor at demoting those who no longer perform as they once did. This creates a blockage at the top. Something must be done to relieve it.

1) No, I'm saying that I was <b>ready</b> by age 21 to be fully capable to officiate varsity games. And I was given the opportunity because other local people thought that I was ready. And the reason that I was ready was that I was allowed to gain the necessary experience and knowledge through the help of veteran officials who wanted to develop younger officials. I was <b>taught</b> how to be an official, and I was also working my azz off at the same time doing what I was being taught. I listened and learned because I <b>wanted</b> to be a good official. Using your recommended procedure, that just ain't ever gonna happen. And that's exactly why your proposed age limits might be the most ridiculous thing that you've ever written here. And for you, believe me, that's saying something.
As for not happening now? Our association regularly tries to recruit local high school students in the 15-16 year old range. We train 'em and use them in local house league and kids rec programs. If they go away to college, we'll find an association nearby that they can join to keep officiating, and also help get them into an intramural program. Hopefully, we'll get some of them back eventually with their love of officiating intact. Others that might not want to go to college still officiate locally, and they proceed up the ladder as they gain skill and experience. We always lose some, but the ones that we manage to keep are nothing but a help to our association. Of course, some never turn into good officials, but that doesn't mean that they don't turn into serviceable officials. I know that we aren't the only ones around doing that either.

2) Howinthehell can you be a spokesman for people that you know absolutely nothing about? You don't have a clue as to what each <b>individual</b> official is going to be like at any age or stage of their development. They're people, not cloned robots. They're all different and they all develop and mature differently. And that's why what you're proposing is so damn ridiculous. It assumes that every person is exactly the same, learns at the same rate, develops at the same rate, etc. That's nonsense and that's why you'll never see anything like what you're proposing ever happen. Sheer doodoo!

3) Didn't get picked for the big games again, did you?:D
Of course cronyism lives. The idea though is that you try to fix that problem, not something that is completely different and maybe isn't a problem. You don't fix that problem by installing hairbrain programs that have got diddley-squat to do with the problem. Yup, let's limit the opportunities of two different groups of officials by installing artificial age barriers. It doesn't matter how good of an official they are either. Or what kind of physical shape that they are in. All that matters is their birth date. I really hate to break this to you, Nevada, but if there is favoritism and cronyism present in an association, it's going to be used with 25-45 year old officials too. Someone in that age group might be going to State even though a 24 or 46 year-old official might be doing a much better job. You are just incredibly naive imo.

Nevada, you should evaluate and judge each official by what they can <b>do</b> on the floor, not by numbers on a birth certificate. Maybe in the Reno, Nevada area, every <b>single</b> official over the age of 50 is no longer competent to do the big games and no official under 25 is ready to do those big games either(as you are intimating), but I really don't think that holds true for the rest of the country-- and world. JMO of course.

Nitrate levels?

Great. Even though I go to the trouble of putting the idiot on my ignore list I still get exposed to his moronic opinions. Would you people pls avoid quoting nevada's ill informed and inane comments in your replies to him? Thanks.

btw Jeff you are absolutely correct. There are 19 & 20 yr olds today making split second decisions that potentially have long term worldwide impact, both positive and negative. Same as 50+ year olds.

Seems the height of stupidity to state that a basketball game is too important to let people in these age groups officiate because we can't trust them to not f@ck it up.

This level is beyond high school. The managers and coaches are working in it for a living and are intense. These young umpires do great work at game management at an age you don't think they're ready for high school ball.

And, as you say, this isn't just the opinion of a single person. This is the opinion and the standard of an entire industry.

To say that age counts more than performance is inane and further proof of the old adage: Youth is wasted on the young.

Welcome to the list Neverref. Say hi to Old School while you're in there.

{Ignore List} = Open
{Neverref} = Add
{Ignore List} = Close

Aren't we beating a dead horse in this thread?

MTD, Sr.

Every now and then you come across an idea so stupid it needs to be beaten- even after it's dead...Nevada's idea would certainly qualify!

Why do you say that it is my idea? Do you think that I came up with it all on my own? I've already stated that FIFA does it and has done so since well before I got involved with officiating.

For those like GarthB who need to resort to namecalling and wish to add me to their ignore lists simply because we have a difference of opinion on some issue seems awfully immature and small-minded. Afterall this is a discussion forum where people can express their opinions.
But go ahead use your ignore function, it won't hurt me any.
It's also fine with me if someone doesn't agree with the views I express, but I expect them to do it civilly. I strive to do that with others. One of the first things that I wrote on this topic was that my view wasn't going to be popular. I was well-aware of that before anyone even responded. That doesn't mean that the concept is without merit or worthy of discussion.

BTW doesn't the FAA have an age limit for commerical airlines pilots? Why aren't they evaluated solely upon performance and physical fitness? Shouldn't someone be upset that we don't have 70 year-old pilots out there?:D

Yes they do, but it sure ain't 50 years old. According to a friend of mine who is, or rather was, a senior pilot for American Airlines, the mandatory retirement age is 65.

Yeah, you stated what FIFA does. What you <b>didn't</b> state was the size of the soccer playing area versus the size of a basketball court, or the number of players either.
- an international soccer field is a minimum of 110 <b>yards</b> by 70 yards. The maximum size is 120 yards by 80 yards. Iow, the field must lie between 69,300 square <b>feet</b> and 86,600 square feet.
- A high school court is 84 <b>feet</b> by 50 feet and a college court is 94 feet by 50 feet. Iow, the court must lie between 4200 square <b>feet</b> and 4700 square feet.
- Comparing maximum dimensions, a soccer field is over <b>EIGHTEEN(18)</b> times bigger than a college basketball court.
- Comparing minimum dimensions a soccer field is over <b>SIXTEEN(16)</b> bigger than a high school court.
- Soccer uses <b>one</b> on-field official.
-Basketball uses a minimum of <b>two</b> officials and an </b>optimum</b> of <b>three</b> officials.
- <b>One</b> on-field soccer official is asked to keep his eye on a total of <b>22</b> players.
- Two or three basketball officials are asked to keep an eye on a total of <b>10</b> players.

Sooooo, to properly evaluate your great idea, we would have to put basketball standards at each end of a soccer field, increase the number of players per team from 5 to 11, and have <b>ONE</b> official try to officiate that game. Of course, you would also give him a person on each sideline to call the out-of-bounds. Under those conditions, I'll kinda agree with you that your poor l'il lonesome official out there better damnwell be in great physical condition, and age restrictions might make sense. It's the same as trying to do a college or pro football game with <b>one</b> official. Of course, what makes <b>more</b> sense would be to put <b>more</b> officials out on the field for better play coverage and thus cut down the physical requirements needed of an official. Obviously, FIFA...and <b>you</b>.....haven't been able to come up with anything quite so.....logical.....as that.

You're comparing apples to elephants.

Your whacko idea might be worthy of discussion but it sureasheck is bereft of even a shred of merit.

Wow...JR dusted off the old abacus!! However, you forgot that the main reason FIFA has to institute an age limit is to insure that the official can - after 90+ minutes of running up and down that huge field - still outrun all the hooligans doing their best to catch and kill him!!

Got a friend who just had knee surgery last month...went to visit him and his surgeon happened to be in the room checking up on him. The surgeon had to be in his late 60's...buddy is up and around and doing great. Under Nevada's logic, my buddy wouldn't have had that excellent surgeon because the guy was too old and some younger surgeon needed that experience...

All I know is when I get on an airplane, I prefer to see the 60 year old, silver haired pilot, than a 23 year old there for the experience.

don't like flying over the rockies doing barrell rolls eh?

JR quit doing that when he found out that he could go blind.:eek:

Once again I have to go find a rag to wipe the coffee off my monitor...haven't had to do that since the other day when I saw that the BoSux had rallied against Rivera to win the game!!

We may have to work at installing "dusting off your abacus" into Official Forum lore, same as "brownpop", "fanboy", "Jon Diebler", "silly monkeys", etc.

We might have our own language before we're done.:D

Don't forget "dexterhead" in that lexicon!!!:p

One of the most respected NBA beat writers pointed out in a column yesterday in the Boston Globe that apparently more than one NBA ref in history has been run out of the league by the league office:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketb...whistle_stops/

Another classic......

And......also the.....wait for it.......SEC.

Of course, in the visual library, we have the nutty Mr. Elias.:D

Jmo, but I always thought that Jake O'Donnell was a Hall of Fame official. Sad way to end a great career.

Shut up.

I don't mean you, I mean as another entry.

You can still STFU tho, if it's not too much trouble.

Another great addition.......

It's all I can do to keep from puking on someone's shoes...

I don't get it.....:D

...just think of Juulie in her fishnets, you'll feel better.

Hey!

Don't get short with me.

Another good short one!

Ha!

Beat 'ya! :p

Wait a second, now...

How about "Going straight to hell"???

Lah me......:rolleyes:

Shut up.

Oh wait we did that one already...

While I agree with you in principle, this is NOT true. I doubt there are ANY 19/20 year olds running divisions in any military branch since divisions have thousands of soliders and are headed by very senior officiers (generals)...and there are NO 19/20 year old officiers, much less generals.

I had to wipe of my TV Screen when I saw that the BoSux went back- to back- to back- to back (does that equal 4 in a row? I've lost track)homeruns of the Yanks. Sheesh, was Wright underhanding the ball to the plate or what?

Attention, mods - off-topic alert!

<font size = -3>(Oops, never mind)</font size>

Anyway, none of the 4 were Big Papi; who woulda thunk it.

Hahahaha.......

Maybe one day they'll get a major league baseball franchise in Texas and you'll have your own team to cheer for.

How 'bout them Spurs/Mavericks?:D

Maybe not complete divisions, but in a war, it's not unheard of for an E-4 or E-5 to be thrust into a leadership position due to "attrition."

Also, given that we're putting very effective and deadly ammunition in the hands of 18, 19, and 20 year olds and that the decisions they make with these weapons could potentially have global ramifications; Jeff's point remains valid.

It was the first thing I thought of when the airline pilot reference was made. The ramifications of an airline pilot making a mistake are much larger than a missed call on a basketball court.

Older Pilots ??
 

ORLANDO, Fla., April 9, 2007: AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc., today announced that it supports the FAA's plan to change the mandatory retirement age of commercial airline pilots from 60 to 65. The FAA said that it intends to make the change within the next two years.
AirTran Airways' support mirrors the support for the change by its 1,400 member pilot union, the National Pilots Association (NPA). Recently, the NPA's Board of Directors voted unanimously to endorse changing the law to allow U.S. pilots the opportunity to fly an additional five years.
"AirTran Airways understands that raising the mandatory retirement age for pilots is a positive decision that makes sense for the industry," said Bob Fornaro, president and chief operating officer of AirTran Airways. "Our airline employs well-trained and seasoned professional pilots, and we believe in the great benefits that years of hands-on experience can bring to the job at AirTran Airways."

"The NPA Board of Directors also supports raising the retirement age for pilots to 65, and we are excited that AirTran Airways agrees with the decision," said Capt. Allen Philpot, president of the National Pilots Association. "Provisions need to be put in place now to keep those pilots who satisfy FAA medical standards on the job beyond age 60. It is crucial to keep our most experienced pilots in place just like our international counterparts."

If you use just a little common sense, you would realize was speaking in general terms. I was not suggesting that any 19 or 20 year old were running an "actual" military division to the point they were a General or other rank where they answered to the President.

I am sure in some cases there are 21 year olds that are officers after graduating from a military institution or ROTC program that make some pretty heavy decisions that could affect lives. If a person of that age can handle that kind of decision making, I am sure a 21 year old can handle a varsity game, which in many cases is not that big of a deal. All varsity games are not created equally.

Peace

Remember, I agreed with you in principle. If you wouldn't have so dramatically and inaccurately overstated the point, it wouldn't have merited my original reply. How is one to know if you were talking about an "actual" division or a "figurative" division when the context was suggesting the former. 19 and 20 year olds are no where close to even having a conversation with the ones running divisions (groups with 10-15,000 people). They are more likely running platoons or squads (usualy a couple dozen people at most....and mostly 18 year-olds).

Whether you agreed with me is not the issue.

The point was that 19 and 20 year olds are capable to handle very serious situations that involve life and death every single day. Calling a varsity game is not life or death. I am not a military expert nor do I have a personal experience in the military as it relates to the overall structure. And considering the multiple people here that are currently in the military did not even address what an "actual division" consisted of, says a lot about the point I was trying to make.

I think officiating is very hard to do very well, but it ain't life or death. Now are you going to evaluate my usage of the word "ain't?”

Peace

Thank you, sir! So the current FAA age limit for pilots is 60, which just so happens to be what I recommended for HS basketball officials.

BTW on the lower end of age limits, our federal government has these:
House of Representatives = 25
Senate = 30
President = 35

Now why is that? What about that 34 year-old who could do a better job than anyone else as President, but is prevented from serving? Isn't that unfair? :eek:

So, JR, are you now saying that size matters! :D

Too bad that you are completely ignorant of the officiating system of soccer. It really makes all that abacus work worth absolutely nothing.

Soccer uses THREE referees, one center and two assistants, plus a 4th official on high level matches to watch the players. All of them are empowered to call fouls. The two assistants do much more than just call the ball out-of-bounds as you so sadly believe. The most recent World Cup Final proves this as, according to the official FIFA match report, it was the 4th official who observed Zidane's headbutt, told the nearest AR, and he then informed the center referee, who displayed the red card.

FYI the 4th official is soccer's most recent attempt to put more eyes on the field to observe the 22 players. FIFA has even experimented with two Center Referees, such as the NHL has implemented.

Who cares about soccer? Go to the soccer board and discuss that mess. And you knew what JR meant when he discussed on “on field referee.”

This discussion is about basketball, not soccer. I have a hard time respecting a sport and its officials when they allow a player to act like they are dying after getting a little contact, then once they are taken off on a stretcher to run right back onto the field as if nothing happens. So if FIBA wants a limit on age of when they officials work so be it. The Bottom line you came up with a lame comment and have been trying to figure out a way to have it make since. Soccer is a different sport and has a different objective. I guess you probably think that football officials should just retire as well because most of those officials at top levels are in their 50s.

Peace

Who cares about football? Go to the football board and discuss that mess. :p

It is officiated by a bunch of fat, old guys who can't run anyway. That is why they need six or seven of them out there.

Yes, as it relates to the size of the playing surface, I sureasheck am saying that size matters.

The two assistants in soccer are required to be on each sideline, <b>not</b> on the field. If either of them is required to make a call on something that occurs in the center of the field, that means that they must make their call from a minimum of <b>40 yards</b> or <b>120 feet</b> away. And if the play occurred 20 yards behind where the side official is located, you can add even more distance on.The basketball equivalent(high school length) would be to line up two basketball courts end-to-end, put an official at the end of the first court, and then ask them to call something that happens around center, or farther, on the <b>next</b> court. And at the same time add another 12 players on the courts to help block your view. Yup, that's great coverage that you're advocating, Nevada. Hell, we worry about the C in a 3-man crew calling <b>across court</b>, and you think that it's OK to call something that might happen a court and a half away.

I'll stick to my feelings about soccer coverage. You can't equate the officiating of that game as to how a basketball game is expected to be officiated. Or a football game, for that matter. I'll also sureashell stick to my opinion of your proposed age restrictions for basketball officials. They are strictly without merit, as in completely stoopid.

Great comment. That really points out what kind of person you are. Demean a complete group of fellow officials in another sport just to try and strengthen your point.

Jeff disagreed with the way that soccer is being officiated; it's officiating philosophy iow. He didn't make any comment at all on the general competency of soccer officials, and he sureasheck didn't insult them personally as a group by using ridiculous generalities.

Sad, Nevada, just sad!

I could be wrong, but I read that comment as a joke to go along with the "go back to the football board" crack.

Don't know anything bout the whiny Spurs, or the Dallas Cubans...

I do know that the Rockets lead their series against Utah 2-0. Had free tix to the game last night!

And we have baseball team in Texas. Perhaps you remember them, they were swept in the WS year before last. :( :D

This is just a small difference between the job of a commercial passenger pilot and that of a high-school basketball referee!

Yeah ... how was the weather up there anyway? I wish I had brought my binoculars so that we could have seen you from our seats.

Best part of the night -- you texting me that Matt was questioning calls up there with you ... in the LAST ROW of the arena! Priceless!!!