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-   -   NFHS Basketball Rules Committee (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/33639-nfhs-basketball-rules-committee.html)

jalons Mon Apr 16, 2007 01:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
Along these lines....I was at a college camp this weekend and one of the major mechanics changes they are implimenting next season is the calling official going to the C position every time. I'm not sure if I like it. I didn't catch the entire explanation so if any of you know more I'd like to hear it.

I believe it was Jim Bain who brought this up during his speech on Saturday. He said the calling official would go opposite the table (as was done in the past), whether it be C or T. The reasoning he gave was that coaches were taking away from the concentration of the calling official with their questioning and criticism. Mr. Bain made no reference to the rule being used on an experimental basis nor did he mention exhibition games (unless I missed that part).

On a side note, none of the higher level officials at the camp seems real thrilled about it.

Junker Mon Apr 16, 2007 01:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalons
I believe it was Jim Bain who brought this up during his speech on Saturday. He said the calling official would go opposite the table (as was done in the past), whether it be C or T. The reasoning he gave was that coaches were taking away from the concentration of the calling official with their questioning and criticism. Mr. Bain made no reference to the rule being used on an experimental basis nor did he mention exhibition games (unless I missed that part).

On a side note, none of the higher level officials at the camp seems real thrilled about it.
I didn't know you were there. Did we meet? I had a pretty good camp although as usual, I worked too many games. How was it for you?

jalons Mon Apr 16, 2007 02:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
I didn't know you were there. Did we meet? I had a pretty good camp although as usual, I worked too many games. How was it for you?

I was there all weekend. We spoke briefly at the end of camp, while we were packing our bags in the room with the sewing machines. If only the officials' rooms were as nice as the courts were. :(

I worked 8 games, there was at least five people in our group at all times, and we had the younger kids for all of our games, so it wasn't bad. I got lots of positive feedback and received some good advice on a couple little things. It was well worth the time and effort.

M&M Guy Mon Apr 16, 2007 02:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I didn't check Rule 1, but I was looking for a definition of the playing court. What can I say? :)
Now, that said, the answer to your question is yes unless rule 1 defines it as you say it does; in which case the answer is no. ;)
Now, consider this scenario:
1. A has throwin along their FC sideline. (Team control established)
2. A1 releases ball where it goes into the back court after a)bouncing in FC, b)being tipped by A2. (FC status achieved by ball while TC is already ongoing.)
3. A3 retrieves ball in the backcourt.

If team control is established during a throwin, then it's a violation in both a and b.
Well, since NCAA has team control during a throw-in, I'm using their rules as a basis. In both your a) and b) examples, it would not be a violation, due to NCAA 7-6-4, which states, "When the throw-in spot is adjacent to a front court boundary line, the throw in team may cause the ball to go in the back court." This is the same wording in 9-12-4, which deals with back court violations and penalties.

I believe the intent of this exception is to make the throw-in situations the same in both NFHS and NCAA, except for allowing a team control foul to be called during a throw-in.

Junker Tue Apr 17, 2007 07:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalons
I was there all weekend. We spoke briefly at the end of camp, while we were packing our bags in the room with the sewing machines. If only the officials' rooms were as nice as the courts were. :(

I worked 8 games, there was at least five people in our group at all times, and we had the younger kids for all of our games, so it wasn't bad. I got lots of positive feedback and received some good advice on a couple little things. It was well worth the time and effort.
You should have let me know who you were. I didn't make the connection. Usually they have Thom's camp at Drake so the facilities are a little better. I'm not sure why we went to C.R. I'm guessing to appease the officials that have been driving into Des Moines for so long. Do you work for Thom? If so, which side? Maybe we'll get assigned together sometime.

jkjenning Tue Apr 17, 2007 08:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
Usually they have Thom's camp at Drake
My mother-in-law lives within a mile of Drake; quite a few of the homes in her neighborhood have been purchased by Drake over the past several years and we keep hoping hers will be absorbed... tends to be a bit of a violent neighborhood from time-to-time. I remember driving to her house one year to find that the streets had been barricaded off in a pattern to prevent a drive straight through the neighborhood - seemed surreal.

Junker Tue Apr 17, 2007 08:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjenning
My mother-in-law lives within a mile of Drake; quite a few of the homes in her neighborhood have been purchased by Drake over the past several years and we keep hoping hers will be absorbed... tends to be a bit of a violent neighborhood from time-to-time. I remember driving to her house one year to find that the streets had been barricaded off in a pattern to prevent a drive straight through the neighborhood - seemed surreal.
It is an interesting neighborhood for a college. I've heard rumblings that they want to do a lot of renewal around there and update things, but I'm not sure how far that has gone. I'm not that closeley affiliated with the area right now. My niece has been accepted there and will attend beginning next fall. I toured the campus with her and was very impressed.

Jimgolf Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
I've seen some at camps look like chinese fire drills.
I think we need to come up with a new analogy here, Mr. Imus.

jalons Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
You should have let me know who you were. I didn't make the connection. Usually they have Thom's camp at Drake so the facilities are a little better. I'm not sure why we went to C.R. I'm guessing to appease the officials that have been driving into Des Moines for so long. Do you work for Thom? If so, which side? Maybe we'll get assigned together sometime.

Drake would be a great place to have a camp if they only needed four courts and didn't have to use the small ones in the Knapp Center.

So far I have only worked high school ball in four seasons. I hope to get hired on for next season and eventually move to the higher levels. I received some great feedback from the evaluators and I'm hoping to get the email or phone call before next season. Until then, I'm just going to worry about the things I can control.

eg-italy Tue Apr 17, 2007 03:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Frontcourt and backcourt status (statuses, stati, ???) are all inbounds. The court is described in Rule 1, while the definitions of front court and backcourt are mentioned in 4-13. So, when a player is OOB, they are not in the front or backcourt, they are off the court.
Just two annotations, in order of importance.

(1) In Latin, the plural of "status" is "status" (fourth declension, masculine)

(2) In FIBA the ball has attained front court status when there is a throw-in from a position adjacent to the front court (throw-ins from the division line are an exception).

Ciao

M&M Guy Tue Apr 17, 2007 03:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eg-italy
Just two annotations, in order of importance.

(1) In Latin, the plural of "status" is "status" (fourth declension, masculine)

(2) In FIBA the ball has attained front court status when there is a throw-in from a position adjacent to the front court (throw-ins from the division line are an exception).

Ciao
You've got the order of importance correct. ;)

Is there also team control on a throw-in in FIBA?

Thanks!

eg-italy Tue Apr 17, 2007 04:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
You've got the order of importance correct. ;)
I knew that :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Is there also team control on a throw-in in FIBA?
Yes, there is.

Ciao

M&M Guy Tue Apr 17, 2007 04:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eg-italy
I knew that :rolleyes:
Of course you know we have an image to uphold on this forum about FIBA rules... :D

Since there is team control, and a throw-in is considered front court if adjacent to a front court boundary line, would it be a violation for the throw-in to go into the back court?

eg-italy Tue Apr 17, 2007 04:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Since there is team control, and a throw-in is considered front court if adjacent to a front court boundary line, would it be a violation for the throw-in to go into the back court?
Yes, it's a back court violation. Indeed good officials have the habit of telling the player whether the throw-in is in the front court, in case of doubt, before handing them the ball. Of course, being a front court throw-in is determined by the original spot, it doesn't matter if the player steps in the back court during the throw-in (players can move along the line for a global distance of 1 meter in either direction). Oh, sorry, 1 meter is slightly more than 3 ft. :D

I'd very much prefer the NCAA way for this situation: team control, but possibility to pass in the back court.

Ciao

Grail Wed Apr 25, 2007 01:45pm
Anyone hear what was decided at the meeting?


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