Ethical?

[J.Albers]

We have a local coach who runs a play he calls 'DIMEOUT', where he tells the officials before the game that to be aware of it, and that it is not a time out. A player calls it and three offensive players walk toward the bench, with the player inbounding the ball and another offensive player remaining on the playing area. The opposing players all tend to walk toward
their bench, leaving the goal totally unprotected for an easy basket.

Although there is nothing in the rules about this type of situation, it borders on unethical or unsportsmanlike, as it is designed to intentionally deceive an opponent, thus gaining an advantage. The opposing coaches usually express their displeasure, sometimes rather vocally.

Sounds like Bush league to me. Any comments?

[Jeremy Hohn]

Well, this does sound shady to me. One way to handle this is to tell the opposing coach what's going on. I don't believe informing him of the name of a play does anything to give him an advantage because you are revealing nothing about the pay in specific. Just let him know that they have a play that may sound like a timeout and tell him to wait for a whistle and a visual signal from an official granting the timeout before they go to the benches!

[KDM]

This one is not that hard and easy to stop.
When the coach calls 'dimeout', call a timeout. Or even better, whenever the coach requests a 'time-out', don't call it. Sorry coach, 'I thought you said dimeout!' Don't allow yourself to get caught where you have to decipher any and all words a coach may use.

The coach is not following the intent of the rule where a he/she may verbally request a timeout. I think that is obvious!

If you're a 'hard-liner' with the book, you can actually call a technical foul on the coach for unsportsmanlike conduct for 'baiting' the opponent.

KDM

[PublicBJ]

quote:

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Originally posted by J.Albers on 01-20-2000 11:30 PM
We have a local coach who runs a play he calls 'DIMEOUT', where he tells the officials before the game that to be aware of it, and that it is not a time out. A player calls it and three offensive players walk toward the bench, with the player inbounding the ball and another offensive player remaining on the playing area. The opposing players all tend to walk toward
their bench, leaving the goal totally unprotected for an easy basket.

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Wonder if this falls under the "travesty of the game" rule, which would be punishable with a Technical. In my opinion, any play like this is against the spirit of the game, and shouldn't be allowed.

Had a similar situation once in a JV game. One team was blowing out the other, and at halftime they told me that they were going to intentionally line up the wrong way for the second half, and to please not tell the opponents.

I told them I would do exactly what I do every time. The other team came out of the huddle, and I loudly said, "White Ball, this way!" and pointed the direction. (Which is what I do every time.)

The winning team didn't like that much and lined up properly. But I was true to my word, and avoided any sticky situations.


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Brian Johnson

[bored33]

I had a similar play happen in a game I did years ago.Team A to inbound under their own basket very quickly lines up in a "stack" like position, but away from the end line. Just as I hand the ball to the thrower, one of the guys in line very distinctly says" I'm supposed to take it out!" and leaves the line, waltzes down the lane and bingo!They inbound it to him for the basket because nobody from Team B went with him!Only works once but....

[Todd VandenAkker]

quote:

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Originally posted by KDM on 01-21-2000 08:24 AM
This one is not that hard and easy to stop.
When the coach calls 'dimeout', call a timeout. Or even better, whenever the coach requests a 'time-out', don't call it. Sorry coach, 'I thought you said dimeout!' Don't allow yourself to get caught where you have to decipher any and all words a coach may use.

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I like that--call the time out anyway. Tell the coach you have an auditory processing disorder and that you couldn't hear the difference. Beforehand, though, when the coach told me about his ploy, I would simply tell him that his "play" is an attempt to deceive the other team, is not within the spirit of the rules, and would not be permitted. Then when I hear "dimeout," he gets a timeout. No need for a "T" here, and probably little justification for calling one since it can be more easily resolved in a less drastic way.

[Tim Roden]

I did take a class in foreign language learning when I was in college. Do you know how many times a word that has a T or a D has been translated the other way? Take for instant our beloved(TIC) Chairman Mao of the Peoples Republic of China. Is his last name Dong or Tong? Depending on who translated the name it could go the either way. I beleive that modern interpretation says Dong. So to have a play called dimeout, I would definitely warn the official before the game and as an official whenever he called it, I would look at him for visual verification.

[jackgil]

Hey KDM -- like the way you think. But I'm from NY and some of us can't distinguish between Dimeout and Timeout!

Seriously though, I had a similar thing happen to me in a modified game. Team A was taking the ball out, I had already administered the ball to the inbounder and then one of the inbounders teammates says "No, I'll take the ball out" and walks toward the inbounder. Inbounder passes it to him (defender has slacked off by this time) and he takes it and lays it in the basket. Perfectly legal, but ethical??? What would you have done if you were the ref? Team B learned their lesson well and didn't fall for that one again.

[Tom Cook]

quote:

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Originally posted by bored33 on 01-21-2000 08:54 AM
I had a similar play happen in a game I did years ago.Team A to inbound under their own basket very quickly lines up in a "stack" like position, but away from the end line. Just as I hand the ball to the thrower, one of the guys in line very distinctly says" I'm supposed to take it out!" and leaves the line, waltzes down the lane and bingo!They inbound it to him for the basket because nobody from Team B went with him!Only works once but....

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I think that this is kind of a "bush league" play but since the ball is live, it's legal. If "B" covers the play, I sure wouldn't give A any breaks on the 5 second count.

[Tom Cook]

quote:

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Originally posted by J.Albers on 01-20-2000 11:30 PM
We have a local coach who runs a play he calls 'DIMEOUT', where he tells the officials before the game that to be aware of it, and that it is not a time out. A player calls it and three offensive players walk toward the bench, with the player inbounding the ball and another offensive player remaining on the playing area. The opposing players all tend to walk toward
their bench, leaving the goal totally unprotected for an easy basket.

Although there is nothing in the rules about this type of situation, it borders on unethical or unsportsmanlike, as it is designed to intentionally deceive an opponent, thus gaining an advantage. The opposing coaches usually express their displeasure, sometimes rather vocally.

Sounds like Bush league to me. Any comments?

---

I would tell the coach that anything that sounds like "timeout" will get him a timeout. We don't have time to think about proper grammer and enunciation techniques.

[DAVE E #27]

When the coach approaches me and my partner before the game to inform me of the play I would stop him before he got into it too deeply and bring the opposing coach over and ask him to start again so we could all be on the same page to start the game. He'll probably change the subject or say forget it. This is a good general practice whenever either coach has a question out of earshot of the other coach. It shows you are concerned about the appearence of giving one coach an edge over the other. This way you don't have to interpret "dimeout" from "time out. It's a time out.

[Brian Watson]

You don't seem to mention if the player request is visual (T signal) or just verbal. I think it is unfair to the opposing team to "let" the officials in on a specific play, as well as unfair (and unethical)for the officials to try and determine or rememeber when the play called. Either way I give them the timeout. If the coach protests, too bad. I would rather play fair, then be part of a shady play. I would also seek the opinion of the state assoc.

[SportsPlayByPlay]

This is one of the exact reasons why I hate the rule allowing a coach to request a time-out. Before the inception of that rule, a visual time out call usually coincided the verbal call.

Now, you have to not only instantaneously react, BUT TRUST the call of time out by the coach, because 75% of the time, you cannot SEE his call, but only hear it.

There have been many times I have ALMOST granted a time out to a coach because I hear something that sounds "close" to the word "timeout". but I have thought twice.

Well, if you have made it down this far in my post, my apology for blabbing. BOTTOM LINE: It's a judgment call in my opinion. If you interpret "dimeout" as "timeout", then its a timeout. If not, it's not. It's not the officals job to distinguish. Just call what you hear and blow your whistle accordingly.

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Zachary "Chunk" McCrite
South Central Indiana Officials Association

[ref39]

I as an official, when approach by a coach in the situation, I would bring over the visiting coach and have him explain the "Dimeout" play to all of us. I think if would be in the "best interest" of sportmanship to always inform the oppossing coach of any "possible" deception.