If at first you don't agree......everybody else is wrong
 

IMHO....

If Mark was from the South, he would still be trying to convince us that Granny was right, and that the war is still not over!

Now comes the post from Mark T. DeNucci Sr. telling us that Ralph is WRONG,WRONG,WRONG too.This will be followed by a 10,000 word explanation why Ralph was WRONG,WRONG,WRONG!The thing to remember though is that this ruling is still subject to change when the Fed rules committee meets.At least Georgia and NC have uniformity now.

Re: If at first you don't agree......everybody else is wrong
 

Perish the thought! ;)

Betting on rules change
 

If I had to bet I would say if they actually discuss this and it appears that they will. I think they are probably going to make it a violation. The email from Ray McClure quoting rule 7-5-7.." After a made basket the team scored upon "SHALL" make a throw-in from the endline "OUTSIDE" the end line" Is so close to what happen that they probably will have a case and use that rule. The word "shall" is what they should do and they didn't do it. Its the key word. I am not so sure it doesn't address it now. Its just not totally clear, obviously....

As long as they clarify I have no problem going violation or warning... Just clarify it.

Re: Betting on rules change
 

Exactly,Self,Exactly!I personally like the warning,but the main issue is to have a ruling we can all follow.Btw,you did a lot of work on this.Good job!

Re: Re: Betting on rules change
 

Yes, you did!

Just make sure you never do anything like this again! ;)

I have heard Ralph speak on basketball officiating I think that he is a wonderful guy, BUT he is wrong.

The play in the original posting is a throw-in violation, plain and simple, and no warning of any sort is to be issued.

And yes, Jurassic Referee, I will tell Ralph and Dick Knox they are wrong. As we speak, I am preparing a position paper on this play (but it is not 10,000 words long) which I will send to Mary Struckhoff and Dick Knox of the NFHS and Ed Bilik and Barb Jacobs of the NCAA. After seven pages of postings it is about time somebody put pen to paper and explain in a logical manner, that the only ruling that the NFHS and NCAA rules will support for the posted play, is a throw-in violation, and nothing more.

I have been officiating basketball for 31 years. That includes games under the following sets of rules: NFHS, NCAA (both men's and women's), FIBA, and NAGWS (women's college-the old blue and white days). I have been a rules interpreter and an OhioHSAA Certified Basketball Officiating Instructor since 1990. I sit on the IAABO Visualization and Education Committee, so I get to meet and discuss basketball rules with some of the best in the business: Peter Webb, Al Battista, Ray McClure, Edgar Cartotto, Roger MacTavish, Hank Nichols, Dick Schindler, Ed Bilik, and Mary Struchoff to name a few. Based on my experience I am very confident that my position is the correct position and in the final analysis it will be the accepted ruling for this play.

It amazes me how what is a very simple play has elicited rulings that call for warnings that are not supported by rule as well as possible technical fouls.

But on a more personal note: I would like to wish everybody and there families a very happy holiday season and good luck for the rest of the basketball season.

Mark. You are hired. I have been looking for someone with that exact resume. The positions are "TOWN IDIOT," and "STUBBORN AS A MULE," they dont pay well individually but if you take both positions the benefit package is impeccable.:rolleyes: Nobody likes a bigtimer and if you want recognition someone will recognize.:o

easy there big fella.

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay!!!!!!

We know that this is, quite possibly, the most controversial subject we deal with on these boards. Every time it comes up, we get several pages of posts - this time EIGHT!!!

The reason for this confusion? - there is no clearly blatant rule/case stating what this should be. Period. End of sentence. Until there is one, just use 2-3, and stop the ad hominem attacks on this board.

I think the efforts of Self, Mark DeNucci, and anyone else who contributed, should be applauded, as this will probably finally have an official NFHS interpretation next year (at least, that's what I want for Christmas!)

Finally, I wonder why THIS thread hasn't been shut down. The local pharmacy is making a fortune from all the painkillers I bought because of this one!

Larry, you do not have to be a big timer to make a contribution to the sport you officiate. I suggest that you get involved in your local official association. Volunteer to conduct a rules meeting or become involved in the education of new officials. It will expand your interest from just looking in the mirror. From your profile I cannot tell if you are an official or a player, but if you are not an official I hope that you will consider coming over from the dark side to the good side and become an official.

just because i dont advertise myself doesnt mean i dont participate. i contribute without the self promotion! i am not running for mayor of forumville. i have often heard the best officials let their actions to speak for them, and the worst-speak for themselves. go figure