Fan Interference with Breakway Layup

[jshock]

During a NFHS game with arch rivals competing, player from Team A has a breakaway layup, by himself, and out of the crowd comes a "crazed" fan from the opposing team and literally "tackles" the player from Team A before he gets off the shot or layup attempt. What is the ruling? Technical Foul? Count the basket? Both?

[BktBallRef]

We're probably breaking some new ground here but....

1- Credit A1 with a basket. NF 2-3

2- Have the fan ejected from the building.

Quite honestly, we have no way of knowing who this person is or which team he really pulls for. We have to be very careful when we start assessing Ts for fan conduct. I would probably not give a T.

[rockyroad]

How about having the idiot arrested? If there is a police presence there, have the guy hauled away in cuffs - we're basically talking assault here...

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
We're probably breaking some new ground here but....

1- Credit A1 with a basket. NF 2-3

2- Have the fan ejected from the building.

Quite honestly, we have no way of knowing who this person is or which team he really pulls for. We have to be very careful when we start assessing Ts for fan conduct. I would probably not give a T.

True, but we also have no way of knowing if A1 would've made the basket. Kids miss wide open lay-ups all the time. I honestly don't think I would award the basket. I would be much more inclined to assess the T. If the "tackle" was deliberate, then the tackler must be rooting for Team B. Right? There's no way a fan of Team A would stop A's fast break on purpose (unless A1 stole the fan's girlfriend, or something). I think I would have to give a T to Team B (not to the Coach), two shots for A and the ball.

Chuck

[Kelvin green]

dont know if they could be arrested for assault ( depends on jurisdiction) but I would hope they filed one serious civil action for battery and go for damages and injuntctions up the wazoooooo!

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

True, but we also have no way of knowing if A1 would've made the basket. Kids miss wide open lay-ups all the time. I honestly don't think I would award the basket. I would be much more inclined to assess the T. If the "tackle" was deliberate, then the tackler must be rooting for Team B. Right? There's no way a fan of Team A would stop A's fast break on purpose (unless A1 stole the fan's girlfriend, or something). I think I would have to give a T to Team B (not to the Coach), two shots for A and the ball.

Chuck

If giving them the basket became the "standard" on such a situation, I could for see a fan of A running out and tackling A9, who happens to be a poor shooter , in order to make sure they got the 2 points.

As much as I would like to award the points, I don't think we can or should award 2 points. A team T would probably be the only justifiable option.

[Mark Padgett]

Need something to "hand your hat on" to justify the T? How about an unauthorized player on the court? You know he's not in the scorebook and he certainly doesn't meet uniform requirements. Plus - if they argue against it, hit them for 6 players on the floor.

[donfowler]

Don't know how you could award points. It may be the right thing to do, but what rule could you use as backup and reasoning?
Do you have knowledge of what team the fan supported?? If you do, what rule would back up a T either way?

Hind sight is always the best vision. Blow whistle and stop play. Have game management remove the fan immediately.In handcuffs by the police would serve the purpose of crowd control. Call both coaches together and explain that there really is not a rule to cover such a situation. (They may quote you several, but I doubt if they are in a rulebook) Expect an earfull from Coach A. Give ball out of bounds and play on.

[Dave Brost]

I think Don is right. You cannot award points because you thought the player would probably make the shot. You also cannot penalize a team for a fan you think is cheering for them. As much as coach might disagree, you have to go with ball to team A, and make sure the fan is removed.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by donfowler
Don't know how you could award points. It may be the right thing to do, but what rule could you use as backup and reasoning?

I cited the rule in my post. I'm not sure if it would be feasible or not. It is specifically allowed under NF football rules. The referee can award a TD in cases where a runner is interferred with by a non-player. While it's not specifically addressed in basketball, I wouldn't be too quick to discount the possibility.

If I'm not crediting A with the basket, then I'm definitely going to have a T.

Originally posted by Dave Brost
I think Don is right. You cannot award points because you thought the player would probably make the shot. You also cannot penalize a team for a fan you think is cheering for them. As much as coach might disagree, you have to go with ball to team A, and make sure the fan is removed.

I can most definitely assess a T for the fan coming onto the floor and interferring with the play.

2-8-1
Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.
NOTE: The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized.

So I'll officially change my answer. Don't credit the basket but we definitely have a T.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef

...
So I'll officially change my answer. Don't credit the basket but we definitely have a T.

Hey wait, come on now! I actually like your original
idea of awarding the 2 pts and not going with the T. I
can't imagine not being able to convince a coach it's
the way to go. Of course if he disagrees I'll tell him
the other option is to go with the T

[BktBallRef]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Hey wait, come on now! I actually like your original
idea of awarding the 2 pts and not going with the T. I
can't imagine not being able to convince a coach it's
the way to go. Of course if he disagrees I'll tell him
the other option is to go with the T

I liked it too and I'm still not sure it's not the way to go. But I wasn't getting much support.

How about we tell him if he doesn't like us counting the basket, we'll count the basket and call the T?

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I liked it too and I'm still not sure it's not the way to go. But I wasn't getting much support.

How about we tell him if he doesn't like us counting the basket, we'll count the basket and call the T?

Now why didn't I think of that?! And when he flies off the
handle we'll get him again!

[Oz Referee]

I have a problem with both giving the basket, and calling a T for several reasons:

1. The player might have missed the basket. (Or the shot clock expired, or an off the ball foul, or a myriad of other possibilites).

2. Can you guarentee that the spectator was supporting Team B? Here are some other possibilities:
i) Has personal grudge against that player
ii) Was drunk/high/just not-quite right in the head
iii) Doesn't follow Team B, but supports Team C which needs Team A to lose to make the finals.
iv) Supports Team A and hopes that the refs will grant the basket/call a T.

IMHO I believe the only action that could be taken, within the rules, is to stop play, reset the shot clock and grant a throw in to Team A. At this point it would probably be a good idea to explain your ruling to both coaches. Have the spectator removed, eithered by court management, or by security/police.

[RookieDude]

Correct me if I'm wrong...but doesn't it state somewhere in the rule book that we are not to award points in basketball?

Just wondering

Dude