Would you have T ed ?

Philz · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 04:57pm

Sunday I was doing the local championship game of a NJB div 3 game (9 and 10 year olds). Packed gym, no complaints that I could hear as it was very noisy with all the people. 24 sec left, Team "A" 31, Team "B" 32. Team A player stumbles (I didnt see a trip or foul and neither did my partner), Boy falls down looses ball out of bounds. He's on floor crying like a baby, coach come out on floor towards the boy and yells at me and said Whats up with that Ref....you got something against that kid? That pissed me off so much that he would say I didnt care for that kid. I dropped the ball and was getting ready to give the whistle and T, I was actually bring my hands up but in a split second I thought If I did that I would take away a good game from the kids and Team "B" could Ice the game because of the team "A" coach if I called it. Boy was fine, and coach gave me a dirty look as he walked off the court and I was steaming inside just waiting for him to say something else but he didnt so, I sucked it up and handed the ball in. Team "B" threw away the inbound pass and Team "A" got it back....took 4 or 5 shots missing and game was over....I felt justice was served by team "B" winning and I felt I did the right thing by sucking it up this time....Just woundering what anybody else would have done.

Drizzle · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:01pm

If the coach comes out on instinct to look at the kid, okay, but as soon as he starts yelling at me then I'm whacking him. You're not going to cost team A the win, their coach is by committing a technical foul.

Philz · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:14pm

I realized that....thats kinda what I ment....I didnt want the stupid coach to blow it for his team with such a dumb comment....I guess you could say I took one for the benifit of a great game up to that point.

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:21pm

I would have T'd him up in a second. First of all this is 9 or 10 year olds. This is not the NBA. Secondly he questioned your integrity. I do not care if part of his job was to offer the kid assistance he was not going to do it yelling at me. If he got a T, then he might realize that is not the time or the place to start yelling at officials. Send that a-hole to the showers.

Peace

NewNCref · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would have T'd him up in a second. First of all this is 9 or 10 year olds. This is not the NBA. Secondly he questioned your integrity. I do not care if part of his job was to offer the kid assistance he was not going to do it yelling at me. If he got a T, then he might realize that is not the time or the place to start yelling at officials. Send that a-hole to the showers.

Peace

Philz,

As I think it apparent, JRut's and my opinions on this are quite different, but I see JRut's point of view. I think you're probably going to get lots of different points of view on this, so I would encourage you to read them, and then decide what you think works best. Sometimes on this forum, people will try to argue that there's a hard and fast answer to these kinds of questions, but IMO there are not, and you've got to figure out what works for you.

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNCref

Philz,

As I think it apparent, JRut's and my opinions on this are quite different, but I see JRut's point of view. I think you're probably going to get lots of different points of view on this, so I would encourage you to read them, and then decide what you think works best. Sometimes on this forum, people will try to argue that there's a hard and fast answer to these kinds of questions, but IMO there are not, and you've got to figure out what works for you.

NewNCref,

He asked for opinions. If he asked for opinions, I am sure he is bright enough to realize that we all will not agree or give the same opinion. I am telling him/her what I would do. What he/she does in this situation is up to them. This is why it is called "judgment." I am not giving a coach a free shot to question my integrity and yell at me in that situation. You do what you want to do. It is your credibility on the line, not mine.

Peace

deecee · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:47pm

any public questioning of my integrity is an automatic T -- if this is a private conversation the coach can get away with this one but I will let him know that if he chooses to question my integrity again it will cost him. this falls under the public type of calling out and IMO is a T. Like JRut mentions 9th and 10th grade basketball no biggie. But even in HS the score and position of the game should not be a factor in theory however in reality it does come into play.

Here I would have T'd him up and any whining that I cost them the game falls on deaf ears because the fact remains that I would not have made that call if the coach had not called my integrity into question. cause and effect.

One T that for some reason I remember from a 4th 5th grade girls tourney where one of the local Hs varsity girls coaches coaches this team yells across the court after I make a call "You better not make that call in a HS game." well he got rung up. couple months later the season started and I had him -- nevertheless couple times he started trying to push the envelope I was able to utilize the Old School Imminent Stare of Death Destruction and Doom (tm) and he quickly retreated. Point is -- sometimes how you carry yourself in the offseason can help you out in the games that matter (yes, yes they ALL mater of course they do).

Jurassic Referee · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would have T'd him up in a second. First of all this is 9 or 10 year olds. This is not the NBA. Secondly he questioned your integrity. I do not care if part of his job was to offer the kid assistance he was not going to do it yelling at me. If he got a T, then he might realize that is not the time or the place to start yelling at officials. Send that a-hole to the showers.

Amen!!

No brainer imo either.

Philz · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 06:14pm

Thanks for the feedback but I want to let you all know I'm not affraid to T anybody and have called a lot of them this year at many different levels of b-ball and have even tossed 3 people so far but I have tolerated more than alot and maybe not as much as some....I also remember when I played and coached I said some dumb stuff out of fustration, been T ed and ejected also and know what that is like on the other end but one thing I hear all the time in officating....other sports also....is to try and keep the players or coach in the game if at all possible....guess my biggest problem is where I personally draw the line because that comment pissed me off like no other thing I heard all year and I just sucked it up for the kids....I felt good about it after the game but still questioning myself if it was right.

Adam · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 06:34pm

If he comes out there to tend to the kid and tells me I need to call something, I'm probably going to let that go depending on the volume and tone.
If he comes out to tend the to the kid and questions my integrity, and I don’t see any other way to take "You got something against this kid?" then it's an easy T. The natural reaction to a kid getting hurt on a no-call is to tell the ref he needs to be calling something. The natural reaction is not to accuse the ref of having something personal against the player.

NewNCref · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:18pm

Did he offer any assistance to the boy, or did he just come out to yell at you? The OP is a little unclear to me. If he comes out on to the court just to yell at you, I've got no problem with the T. If he comes out on the court to help the boy, and you're not going to T him for coming out without being beckoned (which I certainly wouldn't) then I have a little problem with the T for the comments. If he had said this to you on the sidelines, would you have considered T'ing him?

I say just let it slide, and let the coach know that you saw no foul or trip(the people who are good with words will probably be along shortly with a good phrase to use), and then let him get the kid off the court, and then remind him he needs to get a sub in and start the replacement interval.

On a final note, don't let how the T would affect the game decide whether or not you call it. If it's a T with one team up by 50, then it's a T in a tie game. And also, don't take the comments personally or become emotionally upset over them. Lord knows that if I took them all personally, I probably couldn't sleep at night. Just take it as the coach being stupid in the heat of the moment. Keep your cool, and you'll do just fine!

Jurassic Referee · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 05:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philz

I felt justice was served by team "B" winning and I felt I did the right thing by sucking it up this time....Just wondering what anybody else would have done.

No, justice wasn't served at all. You're deluding yourself if you think that.

Quit thinking so much and just call the game. If someone commits an unsporting act, penalize it instead of making up excuses for not doing so.

mplagrow · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 06:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, justice wasn't served at all. You're deluding yourself if you think that.

Quit thinking so much and just call the game. If someone commits an unsporting act, penalize it instead of making up excuses for not doing so.

I'd say you have wisdom beyond your years, but I'm not sure if that's possible.

Jurassic Referee · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 06:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mplagrow

I'd say you have wisdom beyond your years, but I'm not sure if that's possible.

Thanks, I think......

tomegun · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 07, 2007, 06:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, justice wasn't served at all. You're deluding yourself if you think that.

Quit thinking so much and just call the game. If someone commits an unsporting act, penalize it instead of making up excuses for not doing so.

Amen to that. Don't fix it up now. If you give 100 T's in a season, posting this means you should have given 101.