My Old High School
 

New Jersey State Playoffs. I know it is long at 4 minutes, but go ahead to the last minute and see the shot. My mom sent me the article as it is a big deal there--the title in the paper was Ripped Off!

In case you don't watch the video, here is what happened (I won't discuss the added 2 seconds coming from the home team's scorekeeper that the refs put back on the clock): Highlands is up 60-58 as Parsippany Hills brings the ball up. A kid heaves a desperation shot....hits rim, bounces up, hits the basketball mount behind the backboard, back down onto the rim and then into the basket. The trail official counts it and then runs into the lockerroom.

Enjoy. Looking forward to comments.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmdlL_vgeL4

Oh my gosh. I watched it again...listen to the basketball whistle just after it hits the post and before it goes into the basket. Just crazy. Funny reading the posts at YouTube.

Wow....what a cluster. My only question is why is this game being officiated 2-person? State playoffs reffed 2-person? :(

OMG! WTF? Bummer.

This is why you should have 3 officials. The one official is looking at the player to make sure he does not get clobbered. A third official would have likely seen that. Unfortunate, but this was a judgment call all the way.

Peace

Yeah...not really a judgment as much as a guess since he probably didn't see, but it looks like he is watching the shot, not the shooter...and listen again to the whistle before the ball goes in. Did the guy get overcome with the wild celebration that he counted it?

Anytime it is an either or call, it is a judgment call. I had to look at this a couple of times to be sure I saw what it looked like. The film was grainy and not easily seen.

I also do not think the whistle means anything. He probably blows the whistle when he hears the horn. Not sure that even matters. You might be analyzing that too much.

Peace

The way I was taught was to whistle on the horn, that way 'all' can tell where the ball is in relation to the horn going off. In this case, ball is in flight, whistle sounds, easily determined that the shot got off before the horn, and will be good if it goes (as long as it doesn't hit any basket supports).

You were taught incorrectly. :(

The whistle is to be blown to signify that the ball is dead or that a foul or violation occurred during the try. Therefore, if there isn't a foul or violation (such as the ball hitting something OOB such as a backboard support :D ) during the try, it should be blown as soon as the try is over--it is clear that it is unsuccessful or after it is successful.

Remember the sounding of the horn doesn't end the quarter or make the ball become dead when there is a try in flight. So you don't blow the whistle for no reason during a live ball. :mad:

I will. The video has a natural break that you can find by pausing it and then sliding the dot along the bar. This occurs at 1:11 of the video clip and the game clock is clearly visible and shows 7.3 seconds left. The clock is running while the player is OOB making the throw-in following the three-point goal, which made the score 58-59 in favor of the visitors.

I now pushed play and let the video run. I clicked pause as soon as I heard the official sound the whistle for the ensuing foul. The video clip stops at 1:14. That means that the clock should be at about 4.3 seconds left. When the camera swings over and shows the game clock it says 4.1 seconds. There is no obvious timing error here. The home timer pulled one over on the refs. :eek: :( The clock was reset to 6.0 seconds and that clearly isn't right.
This video should be sent to the state office.

How do I get a copy of that video? That is a must have training video for an officials' association.

Unfortunately, there is no way to download and save videos from youtube. :(

The bottom line here:
1. Time should not have been added back on the clock.
2. The basket should not have counted. Totally, a bad sequence of events.

This is for those newer official who may be starting. The time you hear or blow your whistle. You should always look at the clock.

I just watched it again and noticed something pretty bad. At 3:14 of the clip the Lead official picks a position from right in the middle of the lane to observe the final play. He walks over as if he is going to come strong side and then just stops, right smack in the middle. That itself isn't so terrible, but then he doesn't bother to look at the players, rather he looks straight up at the ball bouncing around up there!!! If he is going to do that, then he could at least help his partner make the right call. Just sad.

Who trained that guy? http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...thumbsdown.gif

Actually, you can.

Don't have time right now to do the research, but Google "saving YouTube video" and you'll find software out there that does exactly that.

You might not have heard but Viacom is suing Google/Youtube for $1B for content rights violation. This is going to be a huge deal.

With that in mind, here are a bunch of links to help you out.

Enjoy (but be careful ;) )

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...video+software

A big thanks to both of you! http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/2thumbs.gif

The clip is titled "Fiasco", and that's exactly what it was. :(

I didn't watch closely enough to notice the time issue, but the shot obviously should not have counted. Nevadaref is exactly right about the Lead official, too. Never should have been in the lane, shouldn't have been looking up at the ball, but since he was looking up, why didn't he help on that?!?!

I'm sure the two guys feel bad about it (or will, when they see the clip), but that's not good.

Yeah yeah, whatever. You're still an annoying pain in the azz.

:D

Jeffrey Maier, move over and eat your heart out. I hope that scorer's conscience eats at him/her forever.

But more importantly, if the officials don't have definitive knowledge, why was any time put back on the clock to begin with? Why are they taking the scorer's word?

Wow, those are 2 huge mistakes...adding time without positive knowledge and the ball hitting the support.

Whatever they told the V Coach, he seemed to take it pretty well unless that part of the video was edited.

I would say they've got som splainin to do to someone.

Not being there, we have no idea how the rest of the game went but unfortunatly, they will always be remembered for those last 8 seconds (the 6 that ran off and the 2 they added).

Is it just me or do we really know why the officials changed the time? I did not see anything on the tape other than the suggestion by the person that created the video that the timer was responsible for the change of the clock. I think that is an assumption made rather than a proven issue. The officials did talk for some time about the issue and that tells me there must have been something up with the clock and that is the reason time was put on the clock. Now whether they put the right amount of time up is another issue. I just do not see anything on the tape that suggests the timer was responsible for the addition of time. There was no audio on the conversation between the officials or the table personnel.

Peace

They are 2 major mistakes. I'm glad it wasn't my game. I agree that 3 person mechanics make situations like this much easier. I wonder if the state will make a statement on this game?

The trail is rightly to the right but behind the shooter. He looking directly at the shot from the time it hits the rim and all the way through the rim. He pretty emphatic in his scoring of the goal, like he saw it all the way. Ugh!

I agree with The Canuck, the home timer should be ashamed.

Why is the name "Alexander Belov" popping into my head?

Ball Hits Supporting Wire
 

My worst call of the year: Girls varsity. A few seconds to go in the first quarter. I'm the trail, responsible for the shot and the clock. A-1 attempts a three-pointer from my primary with no defender near her. Still no horn. I watch the flight of the ball. It clangs off the rim and bounces high above the rim. Still no horn. In a boys game, I would be watching for basket interference, but since it was a girls game, I decided to glance at the clock in case of a rebounding foul. Tenths of a second left. I turn back to the ball and basket to see the ball enter the basket at the buzzer. I count the three-pointer to end the quarter.

A few Team B players politely tell me the ball hit a supporting wire. I can also tell from the reaction of the crowd that it probably hit the supporting wire. I go to my partner who was the lead, to see if he can help me. Of course he can't, which I already knew, because his responsibility is to keep his eyes down, looking for rebounding fouls. But I ask him anyway, to show the Team B head coach, who is questioning my call, that I'm trying to get as much information as possible. My partner says that he didn't see it hit the supporting wire. I tell the Team B head coach that I can't change a call without definite knowledge, and I say "I'm sorry if I missed it". He says, "Sorry doesn't take away the three points" and appears very upset with me.

In the locker room at halftime, the junior varsity officials, who had stayed to watch the varsity game, say that the ball did hit the supporting wire. Going onto the court after halftime, the Team B head coach apologizes for losing his temper, which never even approached the need for a technical foul. I accept his apology, and explain to him that I missed the ball touching the supporting wire because I had glanced at the clock to check the time. Before the second half started, all the members of the table crew, from both teams told me that the ball had hit the supporting wire.

My question: Since the scorers and the timer at the table are considered part of our officiating crew, could I have gone to them for help on this call at the end of the first quarter to correct the call ?

My belief is that, yes, you could have used the help of your table crew, but one has to be careful when doing this that the table crew is trustworthy.

Next time you would probably be better served to trust your table to handle the clock and you continue to observe the shot.

2 questions:

1. Based on what can the table help make *this* call?

2. First you advise we need to be careful about the honesty of the table crew then you advise we need to trust them. How can this be?

Are you saying "YES" he could've asked the table crew if there was a "VIOLATION" on the floor? Please tell me that's not what you're saying yes to.

1. Dan, this is a gray area. I wouldn't ever ask the table if a player traveled, however, there is a casebook play which allows the referee to consult the table to determine if a try was in flight or a foul occurred before an unheard horn. (2.13)
Plus have you ever heard of an official asking the table for help on which player committed a foul when the number is forgotten by the officials?
How much you involve the table with calls on the court is very sensitive. I'd like to keep it to a minimum, but I would also like to do all that I can to get the play right for the coaches and kids. Whether the ball hit a pole or struck a wire is a factual issue to me, just as whether a try was released before or after a horn. This is not the same as a judgment call on whether or not a foul occurred.
If you deem that this is a call that an official on the court must make or it simply gets missed, then I can see the validity in that as well.

2. Would you be happier if I had instead written "to rely upon your table to do their job and handle the clock"? I think your second criticism is purely about diction.

Why is that team shooting a double bonus when there are only 6 team fouls recorded on the board? Why didn't the trail close down on the 2nd free throw attempt? He is actually backing up! I will cut a lot more slack to officials if they are hustling. These two guys were just plain lazy.

Despite the fact that we know that the wrong decision was made on the last shot, I can't find a great deal of fault with the Trail official. (The LEAD is a whole different matter!)

I can cut him some slack because in a two-person crew, the Trail must be behind the play as the ball is being brought up the court and since the offensive is pushing it up fast due to there being only a few seconds left he doesn't have time to get a good angle on the ball hitting the pole above the backboard. He would need to be more in front of the team bench to have a quality look at that. Could he have continued his run and gotten down there? Maybe, but would most people? Probably not.

Instead he is almost straight on and probably can't tell if the ball is going straight up or hit the pole and came back a bit. Plus the gym wall behind the backboard is painted white and so it the pole. This lack of contrast doesn't help the official.

Anybody willing to comment as to whether or not you would call or pass on the lane violation committed on the second free throw by the player in the white jersey occupying the space directly to the left of the free throw shooter (2:52). Since the basket was made I now it doesn't matter, but I didn't see either official give the delayed lane violation signal, so I'm wondering if the encroachment into the lane was not significant enough to warrant a call.

That is an excellent observation. The scoreboard does show six team fouls for each team at the end of the game (4:10) on the video closeup. Perhaps that scoreboard doesn't go any higher than six or perhaps they blew that too.

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...ages/whaat.gif

Say what?

The scoreboard isn't official. The scorebook is. It doesn't matter a lick what the scoreboard says about the number of fouls. All that counts is what is entered in the official score<b>book</b>. NFHS rule 2-11-11.

At the start of the video "Vikings" have 11 team fouls, "Visitor" has 6.
Then around the 1:30 mark (immediately after the officials were buzzed) the scoreboard shows 6 each... I'd say the clockkeeper had issues.

1. OK, so you're saying this is what *you* would do but it is not backed up by the rules. I can live with that. And I'll remember it the next time you condemn an official for not doing it entirely by the book.

2. No, just my subtle way of saying you can't have it both ways.

I think that 2-3 would provide rules support. :D

I'm going to disagree here. The Lead should not be looking up at the shot. The shot from that area is the T's responsibility and in 2 man, the rim is always the T's responsibility.

Junker, I think he's faulting the lead for two things. First, for looking up. Second, for not going to get this call if he was looking up.

That does not preclude the Lead from seeing or knowing the ball hit a support. I know I sometimes take a peek at this when the ball bounces high off the rim. Now that does not mean I would see it for sure, but I do take a peek when possible. Also I would not get on the Lead as if they should be watching this. This was a play better for 3 officials.

Peace

Exactly. Junker, while the Lead should NOT have been looking there, he did not leave this play to his partner as he should have. You can see him on the video looking up there from directly under the basket! Since he did that why doesn't he come help his partner out with a game determining call? They could have discussed the play before leaving the floor.

I have a great deal of criticism for the Lead. It is the Trail that I can let slide because I can understand how he missed it.