2007 Nit

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I guess I would ask "Why not?" Why does it matter where the call comes from? Yes, the Trail has the count, but the shot clock is going to be more accurate. So "why not" use it if you know that it was started correctly?

Here's my one "why not" that I can think of. What if the officials count is slightly quicker than it should be. If the Trail calls a 10-second violation, then is the Center going to get him to change his call to an IW?
My thought is that at all times the Center could be trying to check the clock and then subtract ten seconds, but that's not his job. The ten-second count by the Trail should be the only count. IMO, it looks worse to have the Center running across the court with the ten-second violation while the Trail is still counting.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

Here's my one "why not" that I can think of. What if the officials count is slightly quicker than it should be. If the Trail calls a 10-second violation, then is the Center going to get him to change his call to an IW?

If the Center knows that the shot clock started properly, then I don't see any reason that the C can't give that info to the Trail. Kind of like a kicked out of bounds call. If the T insists that his count is right (perhaps because the clock was late to start), then he can go with his call. But if you KNOW the clock was operating properly and started at the correct time, it seems to me that this is relevant information to give your partner.

1) My thought is that at all times the Center could be trying to check the clock and then subtract ten seconds, but that's not his job.

2) The ten-second count by the Trail should be the only count.

3) IMO, it looks worse to have the Center running across the court with the ten-second violation while the Trail is still counting.

1) It's also not the C's job to make an out of bounds call on the endline. But if I happen to KNOW that the Lead got it wrong, I'm going to offer some information.

2) But it's not the only count. There's a little thing called the shot clock that's also keeping count. Why not use it?

3) Why in the world would the C come "running across the court" to make a simple 10-second violation call? Just make the call like any other.

[NewNCref]

I think the argument that you're trying to make is the same one as calling out of your area. You shouldn't be worrying about it, but if you notice it, you have to call it. And I agree with that, if the Center absolutely knows there's been a violation, then it should be called. What I'm saying is I don't think I would advocate this. The Trail can see the shot clock, and has the count, so I'm thinking just let Trail take it, and Center focus more on contact coming down the court.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

I think the argument that you're trying to make is the same one as calling out of your area. You shouldn't be worrying about it, but if you notice it, you have to call it. And I agree with that, if the Center absolutely knows there's been a violation, then it should be called. What I'm saying is I don't think I would advocate this. The Trail can see the shot clock, and has the count, so I'm thinking just let Trail take it, and Center focus more on contact coming down the court.

If that is the way that you feel about any call out of your area, then I believe that you are mistaken.

The official may not see the whole play or may not have the best angle to see it correctly. So he probably should think "my partner has the covered" and leave it alone.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If that is the way that you feel about any call out of your area, then I believe that you are mistaken.

The official may not see the whole play or may not have the best angle to see it correctly. So he probably should think "my partner has the covered" and leave it alone.

That's not the way I feel about any call out of my area. However (and yes, I know this is an extreme example), If I see a player walk up and slap another player in the face, and my partner misses it, I'm going to call it. Believing your partner had a better view and simply not calling it because it's out of your area are two seperate things.

My post wasn't clear about that, so, that's what I meant. My analogy was that if you absolutely know a violation occurred, you have a duty to call it.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If the Center knows that the shot clock started properly, then I don't see any reason that the C can't give that info to the Trail. Kind of like a kicked out of bounds call. If the T insists that his count is right (perhaps because the clock was late to start), then he can go with his call. But if you KNOW the clock was operating properly and started at the correct time, it seems to me that this is relevant information to give your partner.

Yeah, seems very innocent and just another run of the mill inadvertent whstle, except...when the C kills the play to tell the T that 10 seconds came off the shot clock the offense gets a fresh new 10 seconds if the T disagrees. Not a can of worms you need to be opening IMO.

IOW this is NOT just another case of the C bringing new information to the T. The C had better be 138% right, and he had better expect the T to agree with him.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Yeah, seems very innocent and just another run of the mill inadvertent whstle, except...when the C kills the play to tell the T that 10 seconds came off the shot clock the offense gets a fresh new 10 seconds if the T disagrees. Not a can of worms you need to be opening IMO.

Dan, this is not what I was talking about at all in the passage you quoted. In that post, the Trail has called a 10-second violation with 28 seconds showing on the shot clock. In that situation, the ball is already dead, so the C is not killing the play as you state.

After the ball is dead, the C might reasonably go to the Trail and say "The clock only ran off 7 seconds. Are you sure about your 10 count?" At that point, the Trail can say, "Yes, the clock started late" or "#$*%, my bad."

Do you think that's unreasonable? (Honest question, not baiting.)

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Dan, this is not what I was talking about at all in the passage you quoted. In that post, the Trail has called a 10-second violation with 28 seconds showing on the shot clock. In that situation, the ball is already dead, so the C is not killing the play as you state.

After the ball is dead, the C might reasonably go to the Trail and say "The clock only ran off 7 seconds. Are you sure about your 10 count?" At that point, the Trail can say, "Yes, the clock started late" or "#$*%, my bad."

Do you think that's unreasonable? (Honest question, not baiting.)

OK. We can agree that *my* comments are valid, right?

Now to your play (which I agree I misread)...I gotta say if Coach A isn't up screaming his azz off that I screwed it up (as I expect he would be 99% of the time) and you come in to plead his case I'm gonna be pissed at you.

So no. MYOB.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

OK. We can agree that *my* comments are valid, right?

I think so. Unless you're saying that the 10-second call should never come from the C; in which case, I disagree.

I gotta say if Coach A isn't up screaming his azz off that I screwed it up (as I expect he would be 99% of the time) and you come in to plead his case I'm gonna be pissed at you.

And if he is up and screaming, you already know it and you're gonna bite the bullet and go IW?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I think so. Unless you're saying that the 10-second call should never come from the C; in which case, I disagree.

Reread my post and you'll see what I was saying. It's pretty clear.

And if he is up and screaming, you already know it and you're gonna bite the bullet and go IW?

With the the shot clock at 28?

I'm pretty sure I won't have a 10 second whistle unless I know it's right and I can explain it.

(And if you decide to come in and help the coach argue his case I'm gonna be pissed at you )