Suspension?
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2794553

From the sounds of it, the WAC Commissioner is just gonna let the Nevada coach skate. He'll "look into it" but he won't stop the guy from coaching in the NCAA's. Iow, no suspension.

Must be open season on officials in the WAC.

And the police were involved too? Yikes! :eek:

Interesting...I don't understand why coaches are allowed to get away with this kind of crap...there is a West Coast Conference school whose men's team has done quite well the last few years, but whose women's team hasn't caught up to that level yet. The women's coach has pulled a few doozies lately. 1)He went nutso on a call, was T'ed by one of the officials, and after the game taped an autographed 8x10 picture of himself to the officials lockerroom door with a note attached saying "Something to remember me by, since you'll never work in this conference again." WCC commissioner did nothing...2)Was ejected from a game a few weeks ago, refused to leave, had to be escorted out by security, the entire time screaming and dropping profanities at the official who gave him the second T. Goes to locker room and calls Supervisor and proceeds to leave a profanity-laced message on her answering machine, which she plays for the commissioner - who, again, does nothing.

I really don't get it...

Well, I guess the message should have been played for the college president. *wakes up from time change induced nap*

It certainly doesn't excuse Fox's behavior, but I believe that part of the problem stems from the fact that Nevada had Gracey in 3 of its last 4 games.

@ Utah State 79-77 OT loss
Not vs. New Mexico St. at home (win)
vs. Idaho @ WAC tourney (win)
vs. Utah State @ WAC tourney 79-77 loss in regulation

BTW Gracey also worked the WAC tourney championship, so if Nevada had made the final they would have had him again.

This is part of the problem with the conference tourneys. People see too much of each other.

A coach acts like that and <b>you</b> think that the <b>official</b> was part of the problem?

I gotta tell ya, Nevada, a statement like that is just plain sad coming from any official. Freaking sad!

While Gracey had some crucial calls in some Nevada games this year, including that mess with Hawaii, I never said that he was part of the problem.

My point was...
The WAC should have done a better job in rotating its officials.

JMO.

That's a very silly comment, coming from an assignor. The official is not part of the problem. The fact that the assignor put him in a position to butt heads with the same guy 4 times in 2 weeks is a problem.

Not sure they have a lot of choices. If I am not mistaken the WAC Championship is going on when the major conferences are playing. You are not going to get a lot of rotation if some of the best in the country are working other tournaments at the same time. Even then you want the best officials working games. This not HS basketball. Everyone is on a higher and more professional level. It is not uncommon to see the better conference officials often for one team in any conference.

Peace

You're right in thinking that the assignor shouldn't have given that many assignments to the same official in that short a time frame. However, that is <b>NO</b> excuse for a coach to act like that imo.

Sorry, Scrappy, but if that's your thinking also, then you're part of the problem too.

Let's see I started my initial post with:
and JR agrees with that, but still flips out.

Then I made the point that the problem is the assigning of an official to see the same team three times in nine days. The dates were March 1, 8, and 9 (and would have been 10 if Nevada had reached the final). JR agrees with that too. Yet he takes some shot at me for writing that.

Well look in the mirror, JR, because you just agreed with my two points. So I guess you are sad too. :(

Nevada, you intimated that Gracey was <b>part</b> of the <b>problem</b>. Gracey was <b>not</b> part of the problem. The head coach of Nevada, Fox, was the <b>whole</b> problem. No one else. There is absolutely <b>NO</b> excuse for his behavior imo.

Obviously, in <b>your</b> opinion, there is an excuse.

We disagree.

Rut, that is absolutely correct. The WAC is still playing second fiddle to the big boys and can't attract the best of the best for its conference tourney when it is played on the same dates. However, I have to believe that a switch on the conference semifinal assignments could have been done with the officials working the other semifinal.

For the record of the three officials who worked the other semi, (Ruben Ramos, Bob Staffen, Rick Batsell) only Staffen had Nevada in the final week. He was with Gracey on the March 1 game at Utah State. So why not use either of the other two?

BTW the box score on the NV/Idaho game on ESPN is wrong for the officials. Yahoo has it right. It was Gracey, Dixon, Hernandez.

I did no such thing. YOU inferred that from my post. YOUR mistake.

Now just to be crystal clear, I'm saying that the problem is having the same two people have to deal with each other in pressure situations, multiple times, in a short period of time. Confrontations are bound to happen under those circumstances because people sometimes let their emotions get the better of them. That is wrong, and I'm sure that Fox will be punished for it. Of course, the WAC conference needs to understand what it could have done better.

Of course there's not. And no one has said that there is. Not sure where you're getting that from. The official is not at fault one iota in this situation. No one except you has even intimated that.

Having said that, every official and every assignor knows that it's simply not smart for an official to work the same team's games multiple times in a very short period of time. And this coach's reaction is exactly why it's not smart. That's all we're saying.

I'm getting that from the guy that said that having that official on the game was part of the problem. I quoted the exact words that he used <i>verbatim</i>. The <b>only</b> problem was the coach's post-game behavior. The official was <b>not</b> part of that problem.

Old people...Sheesh.:rolleyes:

Once they get something in their mind, there's no convincing them of anything else.

Fanboys.....Sheesh.:rolleyes:

For those looking for a quick summary of the dispute:

Give it up you guys :rolleyes:

To say it is not smart is kind of silly. For one the D1 level is another level of professionalism. There are things we do as high school and JH officials that they never have to worry about. If the coach cannot handle that, maybe he will not be at that level very long. And it is not uncommon to have the same team multiple times in a season.

Peace

Rut,
Please explain why the NCAA selects ten different officials for the Final Four instead of just taking six plus an alternate and having three of those six also work the Championship game.

That's right. Having that official on the game was part of the problem. Not because the official did anything wrong; but because it gives the coach an easy excuse to do what he did.

Come on, Jurassic; this is Assigning 101. Stop trying to make it something it's not.

If you want to believe that, that's certainly you're right. I believe if you ask any assignor whether they would want to put an official on the same team's games 3 times in 9 days, he or she would say that they would NOT want to. Maybe sometimes they have to, but "familiarity breeds contempt" is not just a cliche. Coaches sometimes have a hard time letting things go and if you see that same coach after a tough call against his team, it's just asking for trouble. Again, Assigning 101.

Why do you guys like to talk apples and oranges?

The NCAA Tournament selection is completely different than a conference tournament. It is the only show in town and the NCAA has all the say as to who works when and where. Working the NCAA Tournament is the pinnacle of most official’s career that work that level on a regular basis.

Conference tournaments are running all over the country at the same time. Many of the little conferences run earlier in the week and it is not unusual to probably have a large portion of their staff working somewhere else.

But when the Big Ten, Pac-10, SEC, ACC, Big East and Big 12 come calling, you (as an official) are not going to just turn them down.

Peace

If the official didn't do anything wrong, then howinthehell can he be <b>part of the problem</b>? Hell, even if he did do something wrong, he's still not <b>part of the problem</b>. The coach's post-game behavior was the problem. Period! Officials make mistakes and miss calls. That doesn't mean that they have to put up with post-game abuse like that.

Assigning had dick-all to do with that coach's behavior also. The problem <b>after</b> the game lies <b>solely</b> with the the coach. When it comes to behavior like that, there are no mitigating factors imo.

Hey, I got an idea. If you don't want to read something, then don't. And don't bother trying to tell other people what they can post either.

I agree with all of those points and already said such in an earlier post. However, you seemed to base the bulk of your argument on the idea of professionalism at the D1 level. So if that is true, then why won't you answer my question about the Final Four?

Yup, that's Assigning 101. It's also Assigning 101 that there are <b>NO</b> mitigating factors when it comes to a coach going after one of the assignor's officials post-game, like Fox did.

Nah, here's the quick summary:

Coach goes way out of bounds.

Some people would like to blame someone other than the coach for his idiotic behavior.

I answered your question. These are two completely different assigning processes. The NCAA has nothing to do with how a conference assigns their officials and the conferences only can recommend officials and the NCAA uses who they want to for their post season. Trying to compare these two things makes no sense. Trying to compare what they do at the D1 level and the HS level makes little sense.

Peace

I think this has to be my last post in this thread. No one is blaming anyone other than the coach for the coach's behavior. No one is claiming there are mitigating factors to be considered in deciding the coach's punishment. We are all in agreement on that.

Having agreed to that, I think it's also safe to say that the situation might have been avoided if the assignor hadn't used that same official for that team 3 times in 9 days. Maybe not. But common sense tells me that the official shouldn't have had all 3 of those assignments, unless there was some unavoidable factor involved.

Here's an example of what I mean, from my own parenting experience. If you know that a 3-year old child has done something wrong, you don't ask them if they did it. Because the kid is going to lie 99% of the time. If you don't want the kid to lie, then don't ask the question. If you do ask the question and the kid lies, it's still the kid's fault for lying. It's his responsibility. But you could easily have avoided his misbehavior by not asking the question.

The coach's blow-up is 100% the coach's responsibility. But the situation might have been avoided by not putting that particular ref on that game.

If you still think I'm blaming the ref or the assignor for the coach's behavior, then more power to you. This thread's close to lock-down, anyway. :)

A little update on the Nevada coach......

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...28/1053/SPORTS

I wonder if the cop was part of the problem too. :D

Just like the adage "Nothing good happens at 3 a.m.", nothing good happens when an irate coach follows officials out of a gym. Wonder what would happen if some guy who was NOT earning 6 figures acted in that manner...

Given that the mess is Fox's own doing, why work to shield him from the consequences? What are the players learning in all this?

"We need him to focus completely on the kids," Groth said. "It's really bothered him. This has become a little bit of distraction for him and we've tried to take it off the table."

WTF's fault is that? :mad:

BTW, ACC official Les Jones worked the UNC-Duke regular season finale, the UNC-FSU ACC qtrfinal, and the UNC-BC ACC semi. There were no incidents in those 3 consecutive UNC games played over a 7 day period. :)

Unfortunately, it's often not a whole lot more.

And of course, there shouldn't be any incidents. That is interesting, though, that the same guy worked the same team 3 times in the tournament. That just seems like tempting fate to me. Thanks for pointing that out. It makes me say "hmmmmm".

Liar, liar, liar. :D

On a personal note, I really don't care to see a team more than twice a season, and I would prefer that twice be spread out. But it's not uncommon for me to see a team more often. I saw one team three times this year and another four times. And yes, I had those two teams when they met! :(

I believe the specific assignments for which games a ref works are made on a day-to-day basis. If the first game with a team was really smooth and without incident, that should only mean that the next game will start off with a better position than it would be tempting fate.

One major difference is that UNC won all three of those games. Nevada lost two out of the three, and we both know that most people are better winners than losers.

I'm also willing to bet that Les Jones didn't have any big issues with UNC earlier during the regular season as Gracey did with Nevada. See the Hawaii @ Nevada game. Do a google search or search for our discussion of the ending on this forum.

NOT THAT THIS EXCUSES ANY OF THE POOR BEHAVIOR. (Noted for JR. :D )
But it does document that the WAC knew of prior situations and could have done a better job with the postseason assignments.

Quote from the WAC Commisssioner Karl Benson:
" Benson told reporters at the tournament that Fox's actions were a violation of the league's sportsmanship policy.

"We will review and we will process it through our sportsmanship policy," Benson told The Associated Press."


Question:
It is a violation of the leagues sportsmanship policy to say something to an official after the game in the hallway that requires a police officer to interceed - but you can basically do anything you want on the court including having to beescorted off by security and that does not violate the leagues sportsmanship policy also?

Sensing a problem here - maybe the NCAA needs to set specific policy for coaches / players conduct rather in addition to the conferences?

And I'd be willing to bet you that Roy Williams has fewer issues with officials than this clown.

Further, the WAC assignor obviously disagrees with you.

We once had an assignor in our association who, if a coach called to complain about an official, would send that official back the very next week. He would also be sitting in the stands come game night. :)