I won't forget this...
 

HS game last night, visitors behind most of the way. They make a strong run in the 4th qtr and cut it to like 7 points but couldn't sustain. Little over a minute left in the game and he's down by 20 so he surrenders and puts his subs in. They promply lose the ball OOB. I'm T, start the throw-in and the home coach calls a time out. I figure he's gonna put in his bench and start the game up again but no. He takes the entire timeout. Sooo....and here'e the point of the post...I'm standing near the visiting coach and he turns to me and says "I've been doing this for 17 years and I can remember every coach who's done this to me and I'll remember this too".

All I could say was "ya got a good point coach".

What goes 'round, comes 'round.

Just to clarify, he takes the entire timeout and does what? Tries to get his starters to score more points? Or just takes up time that you and the coach felt should be running off the clock?

If the latter, he may have seen something that he felt had to be corrected right then and there.

2 questions, 2 answers

1. I have no idea what he was talking about, I was 50 feet away from him.

2. I was not concerned with the clock not running, in fact I called 2 fouls in the last minute after the TO.

I bet the visiting coach wasn't concerned with getting home 30 seconds sooner either.

Had a similiar situation earlier this year...very strong local program playing a very new program from Canada...local school up by 32 points with a little over 6 min. to go. Local coach calls time-out - I'm thinking he's bringing in those last two or three who haven't played yet. Nope - sends all 5 starters to the table to check-in and then slaps the press back on. Visiting coach looks at me and asks "What's his problem?" All I could do was shrug...

I hope so, as some coaches can be such a$$es.

I had a coach who's worst player was taller and better than the other team's best. Yet, up 40, he insisted on playing a tight man to man and picking up the press at mid-court.

Had another coach who's team was up 50 and was not allowing his boys any fast breaks, used a soft zone, used his subs, ran his offense methodically and really tried NOT to run it up (he could have won by 100). Now he was teaching his players a better life lesson.

Any thoughts on this scenario if one of the team is locally/nationally ranked and obviously looking to impress? Difference?

same lesson as the kids that score 100 points in a game where their team wins 160-4 and they want to hear praise and congratulations. well to me 32 minutes of practice layups wont get you praise from me all it will get you is you could only score 100 points in that much time -- you need to hustle more.

Personally I think things like full- and half-court presses that are strategies to create turnovers/points when you're up by ridiculous amounts with little time left are dumb, but I don't begrudge any coach who tries to score points in a game at any time.

And I disagree that telling your kids to stop trying to score points is teaching them good life lessons. What about "always try your best" or does that only apply when you're sucking at life? Passing up a wide-open layup is not teaching anyone anything about anything.

There is a distinction between intentionally running up the score and trying your best and good coaches recognize this and are able to walk that fine line.

As someone who also coaches, I agree there is a fine line between "always trying your best" and "kicking someone when their down." You shouldn't pass up an open layup - but, you don't need to cherry pick, or fastbreak every play, press, etc.

I agree.

(extra characters since I apparently am not allowed to make a post fewer than 10 characters.)

Really?<i></i>

I can <i><i><i>

That's cheating!

As another official who also coaches, please know that some teams get bent out of shape if you win by 10, or 15. I have had and seen plenty of teams blow a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter, and a lot of times it was because they didn't want to be seen as "running up the score".

For some reason, we get to the point of thinking that we have to stop scoring and keep it close. My job is not to keep the score close. My job is also not to stop my team from scoring--that is the other coach's job.

That said, I can usually tell immediately if we are just having great success against an equally matched team (and keep all the pressure on) or if the team we are playing is vastly inferior in skill to our team. If it is the latter, then the press comes off almost immediately, we do not fast break, we still play man to man but do not pressure the ball until the top of the key. If it is really, really bad we might also go to a tight zone and not challenge outside shots.

However, each coach reads each situation differently, and yes, sadly, some are just jerks who don't care.

Yeah that's a good point and I am certainly not the type to get between a losing team and a good azz whuppin. But I'm pretty sure the visiting coach was miffed because he had just emptied his bench.

Another thing to keep in mind: if little Johnny is finally in the game, he wants to score too. Keeping your starters in and scoring is different than putting your subs in and scoring. That could be the highlight of someone's basketball career if they don't normally get in the game.

I heard a great perspective on this a few years ago during discussion of an intrastate blowout game at the D1 level. If the team getting destroyed is as talented as the winning team, it's their responsibility to throw in the towel. In this case, the winning team shouldn't be faulted for playing hard to keep their lead and even expand it. However, if the winning team is vastly superior, then you can (not necessarily "should") put more onus on the winning team to call off the dogs, so to speak.
A coach who's been around for 17 years isn't likely to be easily offended by this. 1 minute left in a 20 pt blowout? I've seen some pretty big comebacks (had a great one this year), but never seen 20 points made up in one minute. The only thing that could possibly need addressing at this stage of a game is sportsmanship.

I resembled that remark in my HS playing days.....garbage time was my time to try to shine....or at least not screw up too bad.

is not<iiiiiiii>

:D <i></i>

Is it?<p align=center>

no <iiiiiiiii>

I disagree with you. #1.) you don't tell your players not to score. I disagree using bb to teach life lessons, however, both coaches and officials alike draw some very good conclusions on what they do or call in a game that should teach good quality behavior later in life, even if that life might pertain to playing bb at a high level. However, you don't have to tell your players not to score. That thinking is shadow, weak, and IMO stupid. This is why I suggest all coaches should go thru some type of certification before they become coaches. Because of idiots like you, who have a one-track, one size, one way fits all mentality.

If you knew anything about coaching, whenever a coach whose behind late in the game sends in a group of players who has not played. He's throwing in the white towel, I give up. #2.) When you're way ahead and you don't need to score anymore points and you know you can score on these guys at will. Rather than tell your players not to score. How about you run a play. How about everybody touch the ball 5 times before we shoot. How about (my coaching mind) since it's obvious these guys I'm playing don't know how to score, let's force them to play defense. In other words, we're going to play keep away, and force them to try and steal the ball. I designate that the only person that can shoot is my worse shooter on the team. I just thought of this in the few minutes I'm sitting here writing this paragraph. There are lots of situation and things you can work on as a team besides score, score, score. I just love to see teams that like to run it up on inferior talent, get beat.

What about the tactic. I'm ahead late in the game. How about I just keep the ball for the last 2 minutes of the game. Perfect time to work on this. I remember one team I ref'd several years ago. Team was only ahead by 5 or 6 points. They kept the ball for the last 4 or 5 minutes of the last quarter and won the game. The other team couldn't get the ball back. They couldn't foul them because they would pass the ball before the foul got there. Very discipline. Total team effort. The other team was not bad, in fact it was a close game, which is why they didn't go to the all out foul. The strategy work to perfection. That took some practice to get it to work that good.

Good. That means I'm pretty much on the right track.

DC, you catch on real quick!!! :D

There can be no surer sign, my friend. No surer sign.

I also am a coach and official and agree, but you must be fair to your subs. I continue to coach my subs until the game is over and we will not press, but play tight man to man defense and those players will do their best to score and play good defense. I will be as intense with them by encouraging, pushing, teaching, and chewing on them as I am in the 1st qtr. They deserve that! I think it is terrible when a coach pulls his starters out and sits back and says nothing the rest of the game, as if he is an uninterested spectator. They are doing their best, and as a coach you should never stop teaching.

After reading your post, I'm absolutely convinced one of two things is happening.

1. You're not even reading what you're responding to. To put it in terms you'll understand, it's like spouting rules without having read the rule book. Wait, never mind that one. It's like doing a book report on Harry Potter after only reading page 235.

2. You have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. In this case, reading the rule book wouldn't even help.

My money's on #1, but I'm not willing to bet a game check on it.

Agreed, but calling a TO with 1 minute left in a 20 pt blowout for any reason other than putting the subs in? Tacky. As an official, I'll forget about it. As an opposing coach; not so much.

My senior year in baseball we were getting beat pretty bad one game. About the 5th inning, we're down by around 8 runs or so, and the other team is still stealing bases. I didn't even think twice about it, nor did any of my teammates, until their coach gave a half-azz apology to our coach, saying they needed to practice stealing bases. We had a decent team (won conference that year), but had a poor game that night. Personally, I would have rather heard the coach say he didn't feel the lead was safe; or rather he not said anything.

I agree. I will not stop coaching them from the bench, but I will not call a TO, call a set play, press, or anything like that either. I just want them to play our style of ball and do so as good as they can.