You're a men's official, huh???
 

Recently worked a mens' NAIA DII game with a vet in our associating and he asked if I was still working girls' game....I said yeah, just had one last night.

He proceeded to provide his $.02 on the fact that you can't do girls' and higher level boys'/men's games and not eventually have it come and bite you in the rear.....He said that the different in the games will leave you inconsistent from night-to-night.....He also said you take the risk of being labelled a women's/girls' official if you continue to do these games.....Are any of you running into the problem of being "labelled" girls/boys officials. Have worked two boys state tournaments already and was informed I'll be doing a girls tournament this season and that made me recall his "labelling" comment. I probably worked 20 girls dates this year compared to 40 boys/mens...

I frankly throw the BS flag on this.....Pre-game well, be patient before you put air in the whistle and know the game and you'll be fine IMHO.

Any comments.....

Maybe your partner was lamenting what happened to him? I'm sure it has happened to some. But I'm just as sure there are others who haven't had this problem.

I have a buddy who started his NCAA career on the women's side. He still works NCAA-W for two (2) D3 conferences but his D2 conference supervisor moved him from the women's side to the men's side. So he is currently doing D3 women's and D2 men's.

Vet I was with was as high as DII NCAA mens' and hasn't worked a girls' game in something like 11 years...that might have something to do with it too...

Do you really think that doing girls' will negatively affect the way you call a mens'/boys' game the next night....I just don't buy it....the only thing I could see is the rules differences and from FED to men's there is little difference.

Every night I work during the regular season, I work a girls game, followed by a boys' game.

I guess I'm screwed, as is every other varsity official in NC.

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/bs_sign.gif

We do that a little here in SDak, but we just switched our girls to the winter (instead of fall) a few years back.....Do you work 3-person for all those games? Do college officials only work college or do they also do some high school?

A good ref, like you BBR, can learn to make the adjustments necessary.

I don't do college, but here in Maryland, we use a 30 second shot clock for girls ball, not for boys. We have no 10 second back court for girl, we do for boys.

There are times when I have to remember not to count the 10 sec. backcourt, but it's not that hard.

The biggest differences we have , is we do varsity contests with 3 man, and JV with 2 man... now that takes some thinking....

Some guys just have to tell you how much better they are than you....

In places that do not require you to work both games, you might have to deal with this on some level. I know if you decide to work girl's games where I live, it will eliminate you from other opportunities on the boy's side. I tried to work both men's and women's college basketball and it hurt me. So guys can talk all this PC crap about how this is not a factor, but the reality it is a huge factor. It is not about rules differences, it is about game differences. Girl's do not play above the rim, they do not play the same physically and they do not have the same skill sets That is one of the reasons being labeled a girl's officials for someone trying to work Men's and Boy's games can hurt you.

Peace

I understand the differences in the physical nature....but my argument is that it's a "label" and not an actual "truth"..... I don't necessarily want to continue to do both, I would rather do boys/men.....I just feel that gthe "you can't do both well" debate and at a high level is BS, if you know the rules and pregame you're not going to blow a call in a men's game because you are still stuck calling last night's game which was a girls contest. Or am I kidding myself......It's also very unfortunate that being a "women's official" is a stigma...and the only people that consider it that are the "men's officials".

It certainly hasn't hurt me at the HS level. In fact, I feel that working both boys and girls games (and having to make the adjustment) has made me a better official. Don't "boys only" refs have to adjust between different skill levels and varying athletic abilities too? That seems like a silly argument to me.

When I first started officiating a long time ago, I worked a couple seasons of girls ball only (the guy that dragged me into officiating was a grizzled veteran and he had moved to girls only games as his footspeed had dwindled). The first year that I worked boys games as well, I encountered a little of that "girls only" perception but I got past that real quick.

I'm going to try to switch from doing women's JC to men's JC this summer so I'll see if it is an issue at the JC college level soon.

JR is right. Out here you really need to make the choice. My assignor is a little different and he allows us to work men's and women's college. A lot of other assignors do not share the same feelings. If you are working women for someone else, you are a women's official and will not get men's games. That's just the way it is. That part doesn't bother me. The part that bothers me a little bit is the attitude from a lot of those guys that:

Men's Official = A+ ref
Women's Official = not good enough to do men

Good points......just to add I feel that the girls games are the more difficult games to officiate since they don't create that "separation" and space that boys tend to.....Of all the games I've worked the really hard ones have always been on the girls side....that can't do any harm to you and your learning to become a better official.

I think there is a big difference between working men's and women's. The level of play is vastly different. I agree that good officials adjust, but if you call that type of basketball all the time, you will be more ready for the type of basketball you will see. In addition, at the college level, the mechanics are different. Again, good officials adjust, but if you use those mechanics on a nightly basis, it just makes it a better game right from the get go. I think sooner or later, every official is better off working one side or the other at the college level.

Whether you think it is true or not is not the issue. The point is there are people in positions that have that opinion and they make the decisions.

Peace

I don't like that either.....I've said as I've moved through the ranks that I'd never take that stance and I don't.....In college the women's officials might be the smartest ones of all...same pay and home three hours earlier....They always kid us that they'll be cracking the first cold one about the time we're tossing it up.....Hard to argue with that logic :) :)

Now that comment is right on the money!!!

If you're goal is to become a men's college official, then you will be penalized (fairly or unfairly) by the assignors if you are working womens/girls games. If you really think about it, you can also be viewed differently/negatively by the college assignors (as well as coaches) if you work high school games as well. Since your credibility is on the line in every game, you don't want coaches thinking that you're a "high school official working my college game"....

I'm sure glad that isn't the case in my area. Even our D-1 guys work HS games too. A D-2 guy was one of my first mentors and he helped me a ton. He still works HS games.

In Miss. we have to do the girl's and boy's varsity every night and it reall wore on me. Forget about the fact, even though I can't :D, that the game fee for both is the same as the game fee I was used to for one game fee in Maryland/DC. 64 minutes of basketball just wore on me. Add some of the worst coahes (sportsmanship) that I've ever seen, the fact that we still use the OLD three-man mechanics (C is always across from table) and other things - I don't like it.
I have to be honest, I'm going to venture out this summer in hopes of adding more college conferences so I can do less high school basketball. It is partly to do with doing two games (64 minutes) a night as opposed to one game (40 minutes) a night. The other part is I - and this is just my opinion - don't get pumped for the girl's games. It isn't about me doing a good job or not working to get into position because I'm still of the mindset to reach for the perfect game. It is just about the rush, the quick play, the athletic play, the possibility of a comeback, the lack of predictability and other things. I don't hold anything against women's officials because I know some very good officials on that side. I often wonder how some officials I see went that route and how they would do on the men's side. When we talk about how women's officials are considered, does anyone ever think about the fact that they might have took the path of least resistance and the mindset that goes along with it? I know some officials who really want to be on the women's side, were told they would be better off on the women's side and who chose the women's side because they thought it would be easier to move up.

That is the common battle cry I hear. Most officials know they can walk into a Women's college schedule and you really have to work hard for the Men's schedule. I have heard many Women's officials say this with pride. There were was an official that moved to this area this past summer from another state. He brought his girlfriend who also is an official. They both went to similar camps to get looked at. She got a full college schedule, he has not.

Peace

I agree with the quicker advancement.....I know guys that are doing DI and DII NCAA women who have been in it a shorter period than guys that I work in DII NAIA men's games with.....and as much as these coordinator of officials can typecast you as a women's official, they can also limit your ascent on the men's side by simply liking one guy more than another and giving them the opportunity to climb the ladder....Unfortunately it's a classic case of "who you know not what you know".....

I got duped
 

I got duped into doing a summer tournament at Denmark Middle School in Denmark, WI for $15 a game. I figured, small town middle school players, no big whoop.

I got there and there were two high school age teams warming up, one from Milwaukee, one from Green Bay. Not from the nice parts of town, either. It was high school boys alternating with 7th grade girls.

Talk about changing gears!