first 3-man

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

... So just go! We'll adjust if you have to go back.

Yeah, "Just go." Ha !

In "high C", I am really working a competitive matchup above free throw line extended and action moves 4 steps toward the baseline. [I've got another offensive player outside the arc in the corner and his defender has a foot in the lane.]

My matchup defender makes a quick steal [I am on this thing and see a clean pick] and stealer throws a quick pass to a streaking guy down the other side. So I am 2 steps below the Free Throw line extended and "Voila!", my New Lead had made me the New Trail.

Why? ..."Just went."

[Red_Killian]

Mick, but if the pass is to the guy streaking down the other side, your new C has that and was the old T so should be able to officiate that play to the basket. Also, if I get 2 steps below the free throw line as the C, I'm looking to get higher as soon as I can anyway.

I agree with those that say that new officials to 3-person do not rotate enough. Either by indecision or staying too wide, they miss good opportunities to rotate. Without proper rotations the benefits of 3-person are minimized.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by mick

I hate rotating aggressively and finding a reason to go. Hate it !

Hate it !

Umm, then you should stick to 2-man.

[mick]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Umm, then you should stick to 2-man.

Thank you for that advice.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by mick

In "high C", I am really working a competitive matchup above free throw line extended and action moves 4 steps toward the baseline. [I've got another offensive player outside the arc in the corner and his defender has a foot in the lane.]

My matchup defender makes a quick steal [I am on this thing and see a clean pick] and stealer throws a quick pass to a streaking guy down the other side. So I am 2 steps below the Free Throw line extended and "Voila!", my New Lead had made me the New Trail.

Two things about this scenario, Mick.

1) If you've got the ball above the FT line with a matchup near the lane, then I'm rotating anyway. Whether we're using my "just go" mentality or not. That's a perfect recipe for a rotation, no? If the C has the ball and a second matchup, we should be rotating.

2) In this situation, if your Lead forces a rotation and you get caught behind the fast break, so what? Pull up and officiate it from the C position. How many times a game will this happen? If you get beat once, or even twice, a game, I don't see that as a big deal.

Just go!!

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Two things about this scenario, Mick.

1) If you've got the ball above the FT line with a matchup near the lane, then I'm rotating anyway. Whether we're using my "just go" mentality or not. That's a perfect recipe for a rotation, no? If the C has the ball and a second matchup, we should be rotating.

2) In this situation, if your Lead forces a rotation and you get caught behind the fast break, so what? Pull up and officiate it from the C position. How many times a game will this happen? If you get beat once, or even twice, a game, I don't see that as a big deal.

Just go!!

Yeah, ...I go.
My favorite partner has the "Look for a reason" mentality. I live with it, cuz I know he's coming, but I find it somewhat disruptive.
And it's not just me. There's often the other guy, who thought he was still Trail and I gotta tell ya, I don't like the look of two Leads.

[JRutledge]

I like the "reason to rotate" philosophy because I think it balances the floor much better. I also think if you are aware of where the ball is, you will not have many missed rotations. Then again, we work almost exclusively 3 Man at the levels I work. Many of the officials are very used to that philosophy which makes for a smoother understanding of these issues.

Peace

[mick]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I like the "reason to rotate" philosophy because I think it balances the floor much better. I also think if you are aware of where the ball is, you will not have many missed rotations. Then again, we work almost exclusively 3 Man at the levels I work. Many of the officials are very used to that philosophy which makes for a smoother understanding of these issues.

Peace

Rut,
You mean have a reason [like me] or make-up a reason. [Just go.]

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mick

Rut,
You mean have a reason [like me] or make-up a reason. [Just go.]

That might be a difference in the meaning of where you live. I mean that to find a reason. Meaning that do not allow the perfect situation to hold you back from rotations. I would rather over rotate than under rotate. Now of course I keep into account the team, the players and the situation, but I try not to rotate if there is no need like no post player on the block, team is right-handed or left handed or maybe a zone defense is being played.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mick

Yeah, ...I go.
My favorite partner has the "Look for a reason" mentality. I live with it, cuz I know he's coming, but I find it somewhat disruptive.
And it's not just me. There's often the other guy, who thought he was still Trail and I gotta tell ya, I don't like the look of two Leads.

You like the look of NO leads better??

If there is a mistake to be made, I'd lean towards two leads over none.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You like the look of NO leads better??

If there is a mistake to be made, I'd lean towards two leads over none.

Oh, yeah! Two Centers, and a Trail standing at the division line, looks butt ugly.

So, Camron, are you going just in anticipation or are you going cuz Center needs help ?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Obviously, since I wrote it, I disagree.

If it's so obvious why must you state it? And why must you begin your statement by acknowledging the obviosity (c.f. rainmaker's "intentionality") of what follows? You know what they call people who insist on stating the obvious? Annoying...but maybe calling you annoying makes me annoying too...

The reason that it is GREAT advice for someone new is that the new guy almost never rotates enough. They're always tentative. You say that they'll wonder if they're being aggressive enough; but I think that most newbies wonder if now is a good time, nope, too late, now, no, ok, no wait, ok, shoot. . . And they get stuck either just standing still or ball watching until they decide to go. So instead of that, just go!!

The whole point of that expression is to make them realize that it's almost always ok to rotate. If you go and the ball swings back, it's ok to just come back. It's better to over-rotate than under-rotate. So rotate aggressively.

New guys/gals usually aren't really comfortable with rotating. So just go! We'll adjust if you have to go back.

Bullsh1t.

Here's my take: OP has end of season 3 whistle game and comes here for help. You give him standard mid-summer camp bullsh1t answer to look for a reason to rotate. If I'm pregaming a real game (as opposed to a fake summer camp game) with someone who's about to work his first 3 man game I'm telling him to forget about rotating. Too much to deal with during a real game. Don't make the other 2 in the crew have to worry about where you are during the entire game.

You want to experiment during a summer camp? Fine, find a reason to rotate. Run back & forth like a bunny.

End of season game? Don't worry about rotating and just ref the damn game.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

If I'm pregaming a real game (as opposed to a fake summer camp game) with someone who's about to work his first 3 man game I'm telling him to forget about rotating.

Here's my take. If you're not going to rotate, then don't bother using 3 officials.

Look, even with 2 officials, the Lead is going to go ballside. Just keep doing it. You seem to think it's BS and that's your right. It's BS that has served me pretty well, however. So pre-game however you want. I'm going to tell my new guy to rotate if he even thinks he should rotate and then go back if he's wrong. In the second half, we can tone it down if we have to; but I'll bet that we don't have to.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Here's my take. If you're not going to rotate, then don't bother using 3 officials.

If you're going to use 3 officials, find 3 officials who know the system.

Look, even with 2 officials, the Lead is going to go ballside. Just keep doing it. You seem to think it's BS and that's your right.

Well, we're making progress. You're still stating the obvious but you're no longer calling attention to the fact.

It's BS that has served me pretty well, however.

In what regard? Are you the go-to guy to break in officials to the 3 man system in the last week of February?

So pre-game however you want. I'm going to tell my new guy to rotate if he even thinks he should rotate and then go back if he's wrong. In the second half, we can tone it down if we have to; but I'll bet that we don't have to.

I'll spend the pre-game not dumping tons of new stuff on my partner. Let's talk about the game we're about to work, not "finding a reason to rotate".

But obviously it's your right to disagree.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

but maybe calling you annoying makes me annoying too...

No, that's not what makes you annoying.