Advantage/Disadvantage

[Adam]

Here's the thing. At the CYO level, you're going to get refs who are learning how to apply advantage/disadvantage. Not all of them are going to have it figured out.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here's the thing. At the CYO level, you're going to get refs who are learning how to apply advantage/disadvantage. Not all of them are going to have it figured out.

They shouldn't have to. The rules say this is legal, that isn't, and they should be calling by those standards.

I'm talking high school CYO, and many of those officials are varsity officials also in our area. They are much more lenient in CYO games with what they choose to call - the rules don't change, but the officials change what they choose to call. This is where I have a problem, both as an official and as a coach.

How do I teach my kids what to do, if every game, what they can and cannot do changes? If they're calling very little, should I tell them to foul the crap out of everyone, because they can get away with it? I'm sorry - I won't tell them to break the rules intentionally, just because the refs aren't calling it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

They shouldn't have to. The rules say this is legal, that isn't, and they should be calling by those standards.

I'm talking about contact, in which the rules do say some is legal and some isn't; it's up to the judgment of the official.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm talking about contact, in which the rules do say some is legal and some isn't; it's up to the judgment of the official.

But if the rules say some is and some isn't... the rules say what is and what isn't, and there is no judgement involved. What you wrote before the semicolon contradicts what follows it. Either the rules say what is and isn't, or the official gets to decide what is and what isn't. You can't have both.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

Either the rules say what is and isn't, or the official gets to decide what is and what isn't. You can't have both.

Sigh...

The rules say that contact may or may not be illegal. It is up to the official to make that determination.

Simple concept, David.

[BillyMac]

The "Rule" about Advantage/Disadvantage is on page 10 of the 2006-07 NFHS Rule Book under The Intent And Purpose Of the Rules:

"It is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player of a team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not intended by a rule".

[MJT]

drinkeii, call everything that you seem to think is a foul and there will be about 60 fouls and no flow to the game at all. I don't think anyone but you will enjoy that game.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

But if the rules say some is and some isn't... the rules say what is and what isn't, and there is no judgement involved. What you wrote before the semicolon contradicts what follows it. Either the rules say what is and isn't, or the official gets to decide what is and what isn't. You can't have both.

The problem is that the deciding factor is often whether there's an advantage created by the contact. That is up to the judgment of the official. You don't have to like it, but it's the way the rules are written.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

But if the rules say some is and some isn't... the rules say what is and what isn't, and there is no judgement involved. What you wrote before the semicolon contradicts what follows it. Either the rules say what is and isn't, or the official gets to decide what is and what isn't. You can't have both.

David, I'm late to this thread but it is quite apparent that you may have a grasp of each rule as if it stood alone. What you're missing is the ablility to put ALL the rules together into a complete understanding of the game.

Each and EVERY contact situation is to be judged not only by the actual contact but by the effect of the contact. The definitions of fouls are what can be considered a foul IF the other aspects of a foul are also satisified: advantage (for one).