Advantage/Disadvantage

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

Here's a question I have always wondered about:

The rules do not specify advantage/disadvantage. It is a consideration added on at the end of the rules. (Unlike Soccer, where "Advantage" is an actual rule component)

I disagree with you on part of what you are saying. The rules talk about incidental contact under Rule 4 and talk about how all contact is not a foul if that contact does not change the normal movement of players or actions, there should be no foul. Also the rules state that contact can be severe and not a foul. Anytime there is a POE about hand-checking, illegal screens and even rough play, the rules committee seems to reference the incidental contact rule.

Originally Posted by drinkeii

Obviously, if a player is fouled, and there is a disadvantage caused by the foul (such as hitting a player's arm during a shot, bumping a player and they lose the ball, etc), it should be called.

But what about fouls which don't appear to create a disadvantage to that player at that particular moment. Here's what I mean: A player is fouled, but not specifically disadvantaged, but in the grand scheme of the game - a foul called would give a player one more foul in their count to 5, the team one more foul on the way to the bonus, and possibly have an effect on the game.

In a sense, it is always to the fouled team's "advantage" to call the fouls, because it gets them closer to the bonus, and gets the fouler closer to fouling out of the game (which, if it is a good player, will become a significant advantage to the fouled team).

Opinions?

I will refer to my previous statements as what I think about this issue.

Peace

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with you on part of what you are saying. The rules talk about incidental contact under Rule 4 and talk about how all contact is not a foul if that contact does not change the normal movement of players or actions, there should be no foul. Also the rules state that contact can be severe and not a foul. Anytime there is a POE about hand-checking, illegal screens and even rough play, the rules committee seems to reference the incidental contact rule.



I will refer to my previous statements as what I think about this issue.

Peace

So basically you're saying, regardless of how much of an advantage/disadvantage a foul (or incidental contact) creates to a team, you are only looking at it in terms of was that specific player advantaged or disadvantaged by that foul/contact/whatever?

And on that issue, the rules state very clearly what a hand check is, and near the end of the rulebook, it talks about how it is always a foul to have hands on the dribbler - even "touching" (sizing up, i believe it is called) is illegal. Why have something that the rules say is illegal, but you are told not to call? There is quite a contradiction there.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

So basically you're saying, regardless of how much of an advantage/disadvantage a foul (or incidental contact) creates to a team, you are only looking at it in terms of was that specific player advantaged or disadvantaged by that foul/contact/whatever?

I did not use the word "only." I said that the rules support a usage of "advantage/disadvantage" in the language. Now the exact words may not be used, but the rules say if normal movements are not hindered, then it cannot be a foul. Of course I might consider other factors when making foul calls, but I do not like to make a habit of calling fouls that have no advantage/disadvantage involved.

Also I cannot speak for what soccer does and how the rules are written. It might be that soccer has an entire section on this issue. I agree basketball does not, have a lot written about this, but it is covered.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

The rules do not specify advantage/disadvantage. It is a consideration added on at the end of the rules. (Unlike Soccer, where "Advantage" is an actual rule component)

Wrong, the rules do address, specifically, advantage/disadvantage. Look up the definition of "incidental contact." Contact which does not create an advantage should be ruled incidental.

Editing to add: I don't have the rule book here, but after reading more posts, I remember the phrasing may not be exact. However, rather than stating "advantage," it actually defines it as the hinderance of normal offensive or defensive movement.