Charging vs Blocking

[Splute]

What is the "rule of thumb" that seasoned officials use when judging to call "charging" versus "blocking"? In the games that I have watched it seems to be split about 50/50 going each way on the calls that are really judgement calls; meaning not obvious (in my mind) one or the other. It seems that if A1 (offense) leads with body or shoulder, it is most often called "charging". I would agree most of the time if defense has LGP. If A1 is airborne, it is usually called "blocking" regardless if B1 has LGP. Could someone elaborate on what you use to go by?

[deecee]

if A1 is airborne and B1 obtained LGP before A1 left the ground thats an offensive foul.

usually square through the chest = offensive

[Splute]

I agree per rules, but do not see many calls going that way. Thus the judgement factor coming in I suppose; plus you have to be there, right? When I watch games I try to make the calls that I see and hopefully my calls match up with what is called live. But this one seems to elude me.

[zebra44]

focus on the defender.....timing and positioning.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Splute

What is the "rule of thumb" that seasoned officials use when judging to call "charging" versus "blocking"? In the games that I have watched it seems to be split about 50/50 going each way on the calls that are really judgement calls; meaning not obvious (in my mind) one or the other. It seems that if A1 (offense) leads with body or shoulder, it is most often called "charging". I would agree most of the time if defense has LGP. If A1 is airborne, it is usually called "blocking" regardless if B1 has LGP. Could someone elaborate on what you use to go by?

1) Start by learning the definitions for guarding and screening. Knowing these rules forward and backwards, right-side up and upsides down will go a long way to applying these definitions correctly.

2) Officiate the defense. Why? It is the easiest way to determine who is at fault when contact occurs.

3) Practice, practice, practice.

It has been my observation over the years, that too many blocks are called and not enough charges called.

MTD, Sr.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

1) Start by learning the definitions for guarding and screening. Knowing these rules forward and backwards, right-side up and upsides down will go a long way to applying these definitions correctly.

2) Officiate the defense. Why? It is the easiest way to determine who is at fault when contact occurs.

3) Practice, practice, practice.

It has been my observation over the years, that too many blocks are called and not enough charges called.

MTD, Sr.

1) okay lets talk guarding... once a defender has LGP he can move to continue said guarding position. He does not have to be motionless to avoid a blocking call, correct?

2) This is interesting. I have never considered watching defense per offense to determine contact or other violations. I will give this some thought.

3)agree, agree, agree and re-read the rules.

I agree with your final thought, which is really the reason I ask this question. It seems to me that blocking is too often called as well, at least in my understanding of the rules and what I see.

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by Splute

1) okay lets talk guarding... once a defender has LGP he can move to continue said guarding position. He does not have to be motionless to avoid a blocking call, correct?

2) This is interesting. I have never considered watching defense per offense to determine contact or other violations. I will give this some thought.

1. the myth that a high school defender has to be motionless - he/she only has to maintain legal guarding position... now I need to study the rules for guarding, especially, to clearly understand what motions are legal in order to maintain legal guarding position

2. we are taught to 'referee the defense' as a basic premise to making the right call - it helps to think "where are my defensive players" and then primarily observe them - for one thing, it cuts down on ball watching, but it also enables you to know whether the defender was able to a) have a step before reaching the screen and b) beat the dribbler to a spot on the floor

[Splute]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

1. the myth that a high school defender has to be motionless - he/she only has to maintain legal guarding position... now I need to study the rules for guarding, especially, to clearly understand what motions are legal in order to maintain legal guarding position

2. we are taught to 'referee the defense' as a basic premise to making the right call - it helps to think "where are my defensive players" and then primarily observe them - for one thing, it cuts down on ball watching, but it also enables you to know whether the defender was able to a) have a step before reaching the screen and b) beat the dribbler to a spot on the floor

2.) I like this logic. I think this and the previous responses regarding the defense and timing / position are the root of what my mind is looking for to answer the question. I need to put this into practice to see if it makes the calls easier.

[Chess Ref]

Now I have nowhere near the experience of most of the officials on this board but I actually listened to them. LOL I fall into the area of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing..... I now ref the defense most of the time. And lo and behold the amount of player control fouls and charges I have picked up is incredible. I can pick up the PC foul/charge with soooo much ease now. Really it's incredible by just reffing the defense what I pick up.....

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by Splute

1) okay lets talk guarding... once a defender has LGP he can move to continue said guarding position. He does not have to be motionless to avoid a blocking call, correct?

Correct.

Originally Posted by Splute

2) This is interesting. I have never considered watching defense per offense to determine contact or other violations. I will give this some thought.

If you watch the defense for violations, you'll miss 95% of all violations committed but should get the basket interference calls right. Referee the defense means to focus on the defensive player before the contact vs. watching the ball. Referee the defense is a popular term, but it really took me a while to fully understand it rather than just playing lip service to it. If you are focusing on the defender, you'll pick up the subtle things you may not see such as a bump that redirects the dribbler.

For me on those bang-bang block charge calls, I really look at where the contact is. If it's smack in the middle of the chest of the defender, I go PC and if a coach asks that's exactly what I tell them. It's my main discriminator between a block and charge. Others may ask all the usuals, did they obtain and then maintain LGP, who initiated contact, etc. They are all pertinent but I believe that you can use the point of contact to also answer some of those questions. If the contact is smack in the middle of the torso, I'm pretty sure the defender got there first and offensive player initiated the contact. It's not an answer to every situation, but I think it's a good start to developing your philosophy regarding the block/charge. Make sure you talk this over with your partners as consistency as a crew is what's important and that's really all a good coach wants.

Mregor

Mregor

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Splute

What is the "rule of thumb" that seasoned officials use when judging to call "charging" versus "blocking"? In the games that I have watched it seems to be split about 50/50 going each way on the calls that are really judgement calls; meaning not obvious (in my mind) one or the other. It seems that if A1 (offense) leads with body or shoulder, it is most often called "charging". I would agree most of the time if defense has LGP. If A1 is airborne, it is usually called "blocking" regardless if B1 has LGP. Could someone elaborate on what you use to go by?

One of things I look at is contact. If the shoulders and torso has gotten past the defender, then defender is responsible for contact. If its a head on collision, mean contact by offesive person first, the dribbler is responsible. LGP is the key and know where the defense is. Splute hit it on the head.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

One of things I look at is contact. If the shoulders and torso has gotten past the defender, then defender is responsible for contact. If its a head on collision, mean contact by offesive person first, the dribbler is responsible. LGP is the key and know where the defense is. Splute hit it on the head.

Not necessarily. The defender is primarily responsible but is not solely responsible.

Just as A1 gets head/shoulders past B1, B1 stops moving. Then A1 cuts back towards B1...making contact in B1's side. This is NOT a foul on B1.

[blindzebra]

One thing I'll add.

The term referee the defense, shouldn't be literal. You can't have tunnel vision on a defender.

I think of it as seeing through a match up.

1. You need to be aware of your defender(s).

2. You need to know the status of the ball.

3. You need to be positioned to see between the players.

Too much focus on either of the first 2 will make the call harder, but if you have #3 every time the other two become much easier.

[jeffpea]

refereeing the defense is the best way to get the call correct....my rule of thumb on block/charge calls: see where the contact occurred on the defenders' body - chest/center-mass-area generally means a charge (note I said "generally"). If a defender is stationary and the shooter changes/adjusts his angle so that the contact is outside the chest/center-mass-area, then I've got a block, if anything (although the defender may have had LGP, he didn't move to maintain it....)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

refereeing the defense is the best way to get the call correct....my rule of thumb on block/charge calls: see where the contact occurred on the defenders' body - chest/center-mass-area generally means a charge (note I said "generally"). If a defender is stationary and the shooter changes/adjusts his angle so that the contact is outside the chest/center-mass-area, then I've got a block, if anything (although the defender may have had LGP, he didn't move to maintain it....)

If I'm reading you correctly, that is simply wrong!

How could you have a block on a stationary defender? If he had LGP before becoming stationary, he is not required to maintain it if he becomes stationary....a stationary defender doesn't need LGP. LGP only grants the defender the privilege of movement at the time of contact. Even so, I contend that he still had LGP (assuming it had it to start with). The fact that the shooter ran into him says the defender was in the path of the opponent. Getting head/shoulders by the defender doesn't automatically cancel LGP.

That should be a charge or nothing....never a block.