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-   -   what's the call?? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/32034-whats-call.html)

81artmonk Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:17am
what's the call??
 
Player A has the ball in the front court. Attempts a pass to her teammate, Player A2. the ball hits the oppossing team player B in the buttocks before reaching her teammate, and travels backcourt where the original player A scoops it up?? The call the ref made was nothing. He stated that since it touched the opposing team player it wasn't backcourt. Team possession never changed, I thought. What's the call??

JRutledge Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:27am
You were not very clear, but assuming that the B player was in the FC, you cannot have a violation. B put the ball in the backcourt, not team A. Team control would not be a factor either. Team A never gained control in the FC.

Peace

81artmonk Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:39am
I don'te understand
 
How can team A never have control?? They dribbled it up to the front court. Isn't dribbling it up to the front court, control??

zebraman Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81artmonk
How can team A never have control?? They dribbled it up to the front court. Isn't dribbling it up to the front court, control??
To have a B/C violation, a player from team A would have to be the last to touch in F/C and the first to touch in B/C. Since the ball hit B1, B1 was the last to touch in F/C. No violation. Rut was incorrect. Team A did have team control.

deecee Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:42am
JR misread your post -- however his answer is still correct -- TEAM A did not cause the ball to go to the backcourt TEAM B did. It doesnt matter what part of TEAM B player ball touches.

However if TEAM A player touches in FC again then ball goes backcourt and is recovered then its a BC violation.

Team control does not matter here.

bob jenkins Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81artmonk
How can team A never have control?? They dribbled it up to the front court. Isn't dribbling it up to the front court, control??
Yes, it's team control. And, yes, team control was never lost in your play. But, that's only one of the requirements to have a BC violation. Since A wasn't the last to touch the ball before it went to the BC, it's not a violation.

Mark Padgett Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:00pm
OK, let's all chime in on the four elements required to have a backcourt violation.

1) there must be team control
2) the ball must have achieved frontcourt status
3) the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt
4) that same team must be first to touch the ball after it has been in the backcourt

If any one of the four elements is not present, you do not have a violation - period.

Raymond Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81artmonk
How can team A never have control?? They dribbled it up to the front court. Isn't dribbling it up to the front court, control??
Art, you really need to invest in a rule book. (and I'm not saying that to be a smart-a$$)

JRutledge Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebraman
To have a B/C violation, a player from team A would have to be the last to touch in F/C and the first to touch in B/C. Since the ball hit B1, B1 was the last to touch in F/C. No violation. Rut was incorrect. Team A did have team control.
I did not say Team A did not have control. I said it was not a factor at that point. Just having Team Control does not make a violation in itself.

Peace

81artmonk Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:14pm
com'n
 
BADNEWSREF, you use a qoute from me explaining control, and you tell me I need to get a rule book?? I have one, I use it. Sometimes I want outside opinions of people who are closer to the action. I just found your comment odd considering the qoute you used. that's all.

zebraman Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I did not say Team A did not have control. I said it was not a factor at that point. Just having Team Control does not make a violation in itself.

Peace
Your exact quote was "Team A never gained control in the FC." That is not true. I was just pointing out that to be incorrect so that 81artmonk would not be even more confused.

JRutledge Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:24pm
My exact quote.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
You were not very clear, but assuming that the B player was in the FC, you cannot have a violation. B put the ball in the backcourt, not team A. Team control would not be a factor either. Team A never gained control in the FC.
Team A did not gain control in the front court. The ball is hit off a Team B player in the FC and caroms into the back court. I see where you are going with this, but the point is Team A had nothing to do with the status of ball in the FC. The status of the ball is a huge part of any BC violation. Team control would not be a factor if they never had status in the FC. I think we are playing around with semantics, but from my point of view you have at least had to control the ball in the FC which did not take place in this play to even have a FC.

Peace

Raymond Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81artmonk
BADNEWSREF, you use a qoute from me explaining control, and you tell me I need to get a rule book?? I have one, I use it. Sometimes I want outside opinions of people who are closer to the action. I just found your comment odd considering the qoute you used. that's all.
I used that quote b/c having team control is not the only criteria for judging a B/C violation in your scenario. And JRut did not say Team A did not have team control, he said it was not a factor.

cmathews Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:31pm
first let me say this
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Team A did not gain control in the front court. The ball is hit off a Team B player in the FC and caroms into the back court. I see where you are going with this, but the point is Team A had nothing to do with the status of ball in the FC. The status of the ball is a huge part of any BC violation. Team control would not be a factor if they never had status in the FC. I think we are playing around with semantics, but from my point of view you have at least had to control the ball in the FC which did not take place in this play to even have a FC.

Peace
I agree it is not backcourt. However JRut, assuming that B is standing the fc the fact that A has team control and the ball touches B, who is in the FC, gives the ball FC status, no different than if it had hit the floor in the FC. However with all that said, I do believe it is a moot point, I got the feeling that A had the ball in the front court to begin with.

Adam Tue Feb 20, 2007 01:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmathews
However with all that said, I do believe it is a moot point, I got the feeling that A had the ball in the front court to begin with.
Maybe that's because the OP starts with this little nugget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 81artmonk
Player A has the ball in the front court.


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