what's the call??
 

Player A has the ball in the front court. Attempts a pass to her teammate, Player A2. the ball hits the oppossing team player B in the buttocks before reaching her teammate, and travels backcourt where the original player A scoops it up?? The call the ref made was nothing. He stated that since it touched the opposing team player it wasn't backcourt. Team possession never changed, I thought. What's the call??

You were not very clear, but assuming that the B player was in the FC, you cannot have a violation. B put the ball in the backcourt, not team A. Team control would not be a factor either. Team A never gained control in the FC.

Peace

I don'te understand
 

How can team A never have control?? They dribbled it up to the front court. Isn't dribbling it up to the front court, control??

To have a B/C violation, a player from team A would have to be the last to touch in F/C and the first to touch in B/C. Since the ball hit B1, B1 was the last to touch in F/C. No violation. Rut was incorrect. Team A did have team control.

JR misread your post -- however his answer is still correct -- TEAM A did not cause the ball to go to the backcourt TEAM B did. It doesnt matter what part of TEAM B player ball touches.

However if TEAM A player touches in FC again then ball goes backcourt and is recovered then its a BC violation.

Team control does not matter here.

Yes, it's team control. And, yes, team control was never lost in your play. But, that's only one of the requirements to have a BC violation. Since A wasn't the last to touch the ball before it went to the BC, it's not a violation.

OK, let's all chime in on the four elements required to have a backcourt violation.

1) there must be team control
2) the ball must have achieved frontcourt status
3) the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt
4) that same team must be first to touch the ball after it has been in the backcourt

If any one of the four elements is not present, you do not have a violation - period.

Art, you really need to invest in a rule book. (and I'm not saying that to be a smart-a$$)

I did not say Team A did not have control. I said it was not a factor at that point. Just having Team Control does not make a violation in itself.

Peace

com'n
 

BADNEWSREF, you use a qoute from me explaining control, and you tell me I need to get a rule book?? I have one, I use it. Sometimes I want outside opinions of people who are closer to the action. I just found your comment odd considering the qoute you used. that's all.

Your exact quote was "Team A never gained control in the FC." That is not true. I was just pointing out that to be incorrect so that 81artmonk would not be even more confused.

My exact quote.
 

Team A did not gain control in the front court. The ball is hit off a Team B player in the FC and caroms into the back court. I see where you are going with this, but the point is Team A had nothing to do with the status of ball in the FC. The status of the ball is a huge part of any BC violation. Team control would not be a factor if they never had status in the FC. I think we are playing around with semantics, but from my point of view you have at least had to control the ball in the FC which did not take place in this play to even have a FC.

Peace

I used that quote b/c having team control is not the only criteria for judging a B/C violation in your scenario. And JRut did not say Team A did not have team control, he said it was not a factor.

first let me say this
 

I agree it is not backcourt. However JRut, assuming that B is standing the fc the fact that A has team control and the ball touches B, who is in the FC, gives the ball FC status, no different than if it had hit the floor in the FC. However with all that said, I do believe it is a moot point, I got the feeling that A had the ball in the front court to begin with.

Maybe that's because the OP starts with this little nugget.

yeah that might be it
 

that might well indeed be why I thought that LOL:D

I realize some may call it this way, but it's not how the rule reads from what I can tell. Consider this scenario:
A1 passes the ball from his BC towards A2 in the FC. B1 leaps and tips the ball towards A3's leg (A3 is standing in the FC), where it bounces into the BC and is recovered by A1.
This has all the legal criteria for a BC violation. A had team control. The ball established FC position upon B1's tip, but team control did not end. A3 was the last to touch the ball in As front court. A1 was the first to touch it in the BC. It's a violation and no A player ever had player control in the FC.
Or, we could make this simpler. Skip B1 and we'll have A2 (standing in the FC) muff A1's pass (from the BC) back to the BC where A1 recovers it. Again, a violation without having player control established in the FC.

Aaa
 

This was taught to me early on regarding backcourt. It's called the 3A(AAA) method. IF you don't have the any one of the 3-As then it can't be backcourt.

Did A have position in the front court? Was A the last to touch it in the front court? Was A the first to touch it in the backcourt?

In this case you're missing 2 of the 3. Team A never had front court status, nor were they the last one to touch it in the front court.

"position" should've read possession or front court status.

I agree

I disagree, in both the OP and Snaqwells post Team A had control. The ball gained front court status by being touched by a player in the Front Court. So we have 2 out of 3 so far in both posts...A has control, and the ball has been in the front court. All that is left is whether or not A was the last to touch it...in the OP they were not the last to touch it, as it went off of B, however in Snaqwells post the ball went off of A3, there we have it all three have been met, BC violation.

I agree with this and would call the backcourt violation. This is a case play. 9.9.1 Situation C in an old caseplay book that I have.

A does not need to have possession in the front court. A needs to have team control established. The ball needs to gain FC status; this does not require player control (or possession) in the FC.

You're right. The ball had front court status when it touched a player or the floor in the front court. Thanks.

Again you're correct. My AAA thinking was more in line with Team A already having team control in the front court. Thanks.

ok now I am confused
 

I read the last page of posts. And I am a little confused. Let me clear something up. Team A dribbled the ball up to the front court. looking for a pass. They attempted a pass and before it reached A2 it hits Team B in the butt. Causing the ball to go BC. Team A chases it down and regains possession. So team A had possession bringing it up past the HC line into the front court.

If I read you correctly, than regardless of possession it touched the other team, and thus it wouldn't be a BC violation?? Right?

the key is who LAST touched it, and in your post it was B so yes since it was last touched by b in the front court, there is no back court violation

Don't have a rulebook in front of me, but I'm thinking something in there or the casebook would answer this question for you.

Perhaps the official was right and you were wrong in this situation??? :rolleyes: