Women's 10-second count
 

Does anyone know why there is a 10-second backcourt count for girls in NFHS but not in wommen's NCAA?

No shotclock in NFHS.

Men's NCAA has a shot clock and a 10 second rule.....

Your point?

There's no relationship between NFHS and NCAA anything. The only rule difference in NFHS between boys and girls is ball size. The NCAA has separate committees for their mens and women's rules.

I don't think the shot clock has anything to do with the backcourt rule, except that the women's committee MAY have felt that because their shot clock was only 30 seconds, the 10 second count was unnecessary. Or, it could be because the committee chairman one year was bounced from their tournament due, in their mind, to a bogus 10 second call!

Garth: coach was responding to snake.

In California there is no 10-second backcourt count for girls. 30 second shot clock.

Point was they BOTH have a shot clock....and only one has a 10 second rule

Yeah, I know. My point was the same as yours, there is no connection.

Washington state has 30 second shot clock for girls with no backcourt 10, but stiil a backcourt 5 for closely guarded held ball.

Question still stands though....does any body know the reason why W NCAA does not have a 10 second rule? I'm curious, also.

And you're comparing Mens NCAA with Girls HS? C'mon.

No..I was trying to figger out Snake eyes point.

As I write this reply to DC_Ref12's question, there have been only two replies to his question: Snake~Eyes and CoachP. Unfortunately, both of their replies are incorrect.

Prior to the late 1980's women's college basketball used the National Association of Girls and Women in Sports (NAGWS) basketball rules. NAGWS basketball rules were loosely based on a mixture of National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada (NBCUSC), which was the forerunner of the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Rules Committees, and the International Federation of Basketball Associations (FIBA; USA Basketball represents the United States of America and its basketball organizations to FIBA).

Unitl a few years ago FIBA did not have a backcourt time limit; it now has an eight (8) second time limit. NAGWS did not have a backcourt time limit because it also used the FIBA thirty (30) second shot clock rule (it now uses the NBA/WNBA 24 second shot clock). FIBA's rational at the time for not having a backcourt time limit was the shot clock rule.

NAGWAS adopted other FIBA rules which are still in the NCAA Women's rules:

1) Closely guarded while holding the ball, not while dribbling, and just like in FIBA, this rule also applies to the backcourt.

2) While FIBA only allows the Head Coach to requests timeouts and this request must be made by the HC to the Official Scorer, NAGWS was using the current timeout request rule used by both the NFHS and the NCAA Men's (and NCAA Women's) in the 1960's.

So ends the history lesson.

MTD, Sr.

Great lesson!

There was also a lady in my department at work trying to explain to me the 6 player scenario they also had to play with. 3 girls in the FC and 3 in the BC.

Interesting game this was...

\


Yep, I have a buddy who officiated those games back in the 80's Maybe some on this board have officiated some of those games too.

FIBA extended the backcourt time limit to the whole game (10 seconds) in 1976. Prior to 1976, the time limit was in force only during the last three minutes of the game. That's not "a few years ago", is it? :)

At the same time, the "return in the backcourt" rule was extended to the whole game (it was only in the last 3 minutes).

It was a major rule reform: it introduced the bonus free throws (after the 10th foul in a half), instead of shooting for every foul in the last 3 minutes. It introduced also the "3 for 2" free throws for a shooting foul and the additional free throw for a shooting foul with scored basket. Some source contends that some of these rules changed in 1974, but at that time the rule changes were valid for an Olympic cycle (and 1976 was an Olympic year).

The shot clock rule was already in force during the whole game (30 seconds) since 1956.

A few years ago the backcourt time limit was reduced to 8 seconds, at the same time the shot clock was reduced to 24 seconds.

Just curious, what year was the shot clock and count reduced? I have never played with the long clock, but I have once gotten old referee materials out containing refrences to the 30-second clock and 10 -second count.

It was in 2000; two years later they changed again the 24 second reset rule, allowing the play to continue after the sound if the shot strikes the rim.

Before 2000 (with 30 seconds) the ball had to leave the shooter's hands in order to avoid the shot clock violation.

I graduated in the early 90's from a small school in Iowa, and it was a year or so later that the Iowa Girls High School Athletic Union required all schools to play 5 on 5. Prior to that, it was mainly just the large schools that played full court 5 on 5 basketball, the smaller schools played 6 on 6. I believe Iowa was the last hold-out for this. Tradition played a large role in its longevity; but it was costing the girls college opportunities because of the nature of the game. Offensive players didn't play defense, and defensive players never shot the ball.

It was basically two games of half-court 3 on 3. Three players from each team were on each side of the court and could not cross the division line. Three played defense (called forwards) and three played offense (called guards). After a made basket, the lead official would grab the ball and throw it to the old trail who was heading down the court as new lead. He (or she) would then throw the ball to the inbounder standing in her half of the jump circle as he continued on to new lead.
Some other rules differences I remember:
1. Offense could only bounce the ball (dribble) twice. Third bounce was an illegal dribble.
2. The start of the dribble was the downward motion of the dribbling hand, not the release of the ball. Therefore, the ball did not need to be released prior to the pivot foot leaving the floor; the downward motion only needed to have started.
3. It was illegal for the defense to touch the ball while being held by the offensive player unless the offensive player was standing in the lane. Penalty was an "illegal use of the hands" foul.
4. I believe handing the ball off to a teammate was a violation as well. The ball needed to be released on a pass.

It wasn't unusual to have one girl on a team average 30-40 points a game, scoring 50-60 occasionally.

CoachP,
I seem to remember 6 players:

• Two front court
• Two backcourt
• Two floaters both courts.

...1962?

NCAA Women's do not have a 10 second BC count because they have a 30 second shot clock. That is the reason whether anyone here likes it or not.

It boils down to the fact that there are different governing bodies, so there are bound to be different rules. Each state has different rule variations (even if it's whether or not to use the coaching box). Some states, like Iowa, have different adoptions for girls than boys. Even after going 5 on 5, they still make themselves feel important by having small variations on certain rules, such as when the arrow gets flipped, which lane spaces are occupied and which are vacant, etc.

Iirc, we had a separate rule book book just for Wimmen around that time. I do remember having to learn 2 very different rule books to go back and forth. It was almost like what Snaqs detailed though. Three offensive and three defensive players a team. Each could use 2/3 of the court though, with a line marking their zones right across the court at both 28' marks. The offensive players couldn't go back over the line to play defense at the other team's basket, and defensive players couldn't go up over their line to play at their own basket. I can also remember the girls at a few Catholic schools having to play in bloomers or skirts below their knees.

P.S. One other FIBA rule that has been in the women's game since the NAGWS days is the distance needed to establish a closely guarded position: six (6) feet in NFHS and NCAA Men's but NCAA Wome's is three (3) feet like FIBA.

My point is, if there's no shotclock you should have a 10 second count since it could lead to stalling. JMO.

No 10 and Yes 30
 

Massachusetts HS has NO 10 second back-court yet does use the 30 second shot clock for JV as well as Varsity Girls. Both Boys and Girls Middle School/Jr.High has NO 10 second back-court and NO 30 second shot clock.

The reason is simple. You have one committee for the Men's game, you have one for the Women's game and you have another for the NF. All these committees do not have to agree on anything.

Peace