Free throw violation or not?
 

Once in awhile I see a player outside the 3 point line / free throw line extended on a free throw take a running start towards the basket but dont actually brake the plane before for it hits the rim (NHFS) or on the release(NCAA) but always see it called as a violation. I've even called it myself...nobody seems to question it but in the rule book I only seen it stated as they can not break the plane....can anyone help me out on that one?

And when you made the call what was the violation in your opinion?

BTW, in NCAA the restriction is the same as NFHS. Players outside the 3-pt line have to wait for the ball to hit the rim first.

Well Badnew I know he didnt break the plane but he sure got an advantage with the running start so thats why I ask

I only ask to make you think about the play. What would your answer have been had someone questioned you on the spot. He may have gotten an advantage in your opinion but you when you blow your whistle for a violation you need to be able to back it up with a rule.

Here's the NCAA rule: 9-1.2.g. Players not in a legal marked lane space shall remain behind the freethrow line extended and behind the three-point field-goal line until the ball strikes the ring, flange or backboard, or until the free throw ends.

Maybe, but it's a legal advantage. There shouldn't be a violation here as long as they don't break the plane with their foot until the ball hits something.

I know Badnews, but why wouldnt more players do that if its legal?....they could start out running say 20 feet before the 3 point line and time it so they break the plane just after or on the release and they would most likely get the rebound with the momentum they were able to gain before the shot.....I never see this on TV, mostly see it REC league and youth league game and alway see the Refs call it a violation and and as I stated nobody seems to question it but me and as you mentioned they just have to stay behind the line until the release which they do according to the rule but the momentum they get from getting a head start by running and timming the free throw I feel is a great advantage.

For Fed rules on a free throw, when can players enter the lane? Does the ball have to touch the ring or can the players enter the lane if the ball touches the flange or backboard first?

Philz Please read this rule carefully.
 

lukealex - players lined up on the lane may enter after the ball is released by the shooter.
edit: sorry this is a reference to NCAA rules. FED I think is when it touches the ring, flange or backboard.

Touches the ring or backboard or until the free throws end.

Smoke/Badnews......I can read and I did read it before I made this post but I thought I may have missed something in the rules...... as I stated I never see this happen in any college or NBA games I seen on TV and if its legal why wouldnt more players work on that timming as I think it would really improve your chances of getting the rebound....for those reasons only I question the rule....Can any big time college ref or coach answer this for me?

Does anyone else ever see this and do you call anything? This really isnt that uncommon especially in lower levels.

If its legal to get a running start towards the Basket and time yourself breaking the 3 point / free throw line extented plane legally why wouldnt you practice that and why I never see it in higher levels of Baskeball? Its really not that hard to time it. If 9 and 10 year olds can do why dont I see this in higher level of BB? If its legal you could actually start at the mid court point and with the ability of players now you could probably jump from the 3 point line an fly though the air and grab the rebound, as long as you didnt crash into anyone....right?

I still don't think you are understanding that players outside the 3 point line can NOT enter until the ball hits the ring,flange or backboard. That was my intention to get you to re-read the rule.

Now my opinion on why it does not get done at higher levels. I feel it increases the possibility of a violation due to the timing required for one. Second withthe increased skill there is a higher probability that the player "crashing" the boards this way could initiate contact and therfore be called for a foul.

It is the opinon of this poster that the risks outweigh the rewards and that is why it is not done.

Trying to picture that. :confused:

I agree with SmokeEater on why this does not happen more.

Wouldn’t the running and moving around by this zealous player be disconcerting to the shooter? That would be a violation.

Team A, shooting, is likely to not get the rebound. If team A crashes one of the two remaining defenders, they are more succeptible to a fastbreak as team B already has a rebounding edge (unless team A crashes players). It is in the numbers. Also, this strategy is employed frequently, at all levels, at the end of close games.

Edited for spelling

Maybe, maybe not, that's a judgment call.

Here's why I think it doesn't happen more. A running start requires more precise timing; you need to know precisely when the shooter is going to release it. No way to do that. A "floating start" isn't so precise, as you can wait until the ball is released. You see a "floating start" occasionally. I remember Jordan did it a few times successfully.

Also, at the higher levels, the chances of the free throw being made go up, so the potential for reward is diminished. When you add the risks of a real violation, it becomes less "worth it" to try.

If they did it all the time, the opponents would adjust and make the tactic useless. Sorta like the flea flicker in football; it only works at that level if you only do it once every blue moon.

Bottom line; it's not a violation and it shouldn't be called unless you think either foot crossed the plane before the ball hits. Players off the lane have free movement within their very large area.

No, it's not disconcertion unless the shooter has eyes in the back of his head.

So if you’re at the free throw line and some guy is behind you running toward the three point line, that wouldn’t bother you? I’m certain you would be able hear him coming. Maybe if he runs tippy-toe.:)

I can't see any real advantage to doing this. By the time the ball hits the rim, a player who is almost 20 feet away is getting a rebound off the iron? :confused: I don't think so, unless it is a long rebound which doesn't usually happen on free throws.

ok...I'm going to ask my fellow refs and assigner why they call it. They got me doing it(though I didnt ask cause I didnt want to seem stupid) I thought I missed something in the rules thats why I'm glad I found this forum....I learned so much this year from this forum because I sometimes have trouble understanding the rule book. I even corrected some much more senior officials with my highlighted rule book from answers I got from here. Maybe thats why I getting a lot of assignments :)

thanks

I have seen it a few times at the NBA level by the offense.

I've also seen it called a violation at the NBA level for the player mistiming it and entering before the ball was released. So because it's hard to time perfectly every time, that's why I don't think it's done.

I don't think so. Would it bother you if he started at the three point line and ran the other way? What if he ran from the far side of the court to his bench to ask a question; horizontal with the shooter? Unless he's stomping his feet like my 6 year old, I'm highly unlikely to have anything here.