Dunk or Illegal Dribble
 

A1 comes dribbling down the court, wide open on a fast break. A1 throws the ball off the backboard (obviously not an attempt at a shot), catches it in the air, and dunks the ball.

Partner (a veteran official) makes no call. After the game, I ask him about the play, and he says it's perfectly legal. I ask about the possibility of an illegal dribble call, and he says since it's at their basket, it's okay.

Is this correct, and if so, NFHS rules citations or case plays would be greatly appreciated.

Did he throw it off the backboard with 1 hand or 2?

He used 2 hands.

If there's a difference between 1 hand or 2 hands, I'd appreciate it if you could explain the difference.

I think he was being sarcastic -- have you NEVER seen this done before?

if the answer is NO -- then please proceed to hang up your whistle --

if the answer is YES -- then think real hard if you can remember EVER seeing an official come in with a whistle on this and calling an ILLEGAL dribble.

You're partner's reasoning is incorrect however his nocall is correct.

Why is his partner's reasoning incorrect?

i dont see whether its their basket or not should matter. its an illegal dribble if the ball comes to rest in their palm so what does the basket matter?

I have seen this done before, but have never thought about it from an officiating standpoint. While I appreciate your help, the smart comments could have been withheld.

I am trying my best to become a better official, and that's why I ask questions, but it's when people give smart responses that are demeaning, as if to say "if you don't already know all the answers, hang it up," that I get slightly discouraged.

But, back to the original question, what about Rule 4-15-2? Does that not apply here? Just curious.

it would be an illegal dribble if he just threw it against the backboard and recovered and landed on his feet. i do not have my rulebook here but someone will come along and let us know what that rule is.

sorry for the smart azz comment i have just been in a saracastic mood all day. but dont hang it up because of that comment think of this as thick skin training. If you can take e-punishment you will do fine when you take coach punishment.

thanks decee, and don't worry about it. i can use the thick skin training. not to mention, from what i've seen on here, you know your stuff, so i know i'm getting advice from one of the best.

Whatinthehell are you talking about?

It's not an illegal dribble if the ball comes to rest in their palm. It has <b>NEVER</b> been an illegal dribble if the ball comes to rest in their palm. It also <b>NEVER</b> will be an illegal dribble when the ball comes to rest in their palm.

The dribble <b>ENDS</b> when the ball comes to rest in their palm. Rule 4-15-4. It is <b>NOT</b> a violation to end a dribble, deecee. After the dribble ends, they can't dribble a second time. That is a violation.

Methinks you should save your sarcasm until you actually learn some rules that you can be sarcastic with.

If he threw it up against his own backboard and recovered it, it would be an illegal dribble?

When you find your rulebook, please cite a rule that will back that statement up.

dribble, dribble, dribble -- throws the ball against his backboard (not a shot attempt) -- jumps up, secures the ball, lands -- what do you got -- i got me a travel.

but I am sorry due to semantics I was incorrect -- I will bow out and say yes I was wrong -- and I should know better than to spell everything out -- once the ball comes to rest -- yadda yadda yadda -- then he dribbles again -- violation. sorry for the oversight

It's not traveling.

It's not a double drible or an illegal dribble.

To my fellow NC official, NewNCRef, the play is perfectly legal. Throwing the ball off the opponent's backboard constitutes a dribble. Throwing the ball off your own backboard is perfectly legal, not matter the reason for throwing it. It is not a dribble, legal or illegal. It's not traveling as you can't travel unless you're HOLDING the ball.*

deecee is widely known for the misinformation he spreads. Ignore him. If I can help you farther, you can PM me. I'd be glad to hear from you.

*There's one exception that has nothing to do with this play.

Naw, due to the fact that you generally don't have a clue when it comes to the actual rules, you were incorrect. Give credit where credit is due.:)

Finally, someone besides me is bashing on deecee. :p
He doesn't know the rules. He is just a young, brash official who thinks too much of himself.

Listen to JR and BktBallRef. They really know this stuff. :)

Confusing grammar aside, I've never seen it done before, but I do know the rule and I'll keep my whistle, thanks.

it makes a huge difference
 

We have had this particular discussion concerning which board several times on here...have you not read these discussions?

If the answer is no, do a search, if the answer is yes and you still don't see the distinct difference hang up your whistle :D

OK, I’m going to go out on a limb here. But, isn’t “throwing” the ball at your own backboard considered a try? In which case, team control is lost and then when the player catches the ball, he/she is considered to be rebounding the ball.
However, bouncing the ball off the opponent’s basket is considered a dribble. Correct??

Sweet and to the point.
Many years ago the McDonalds High School All-Star game was player in St. Louis. and this play of throwing the ball off the backboard, catching and dunking was a play in the game. No violation then... no violation now.
:D

okay dribble dribble backboarddribble catch land with both feet. Jump stop right?

Yes. <i></i>

so then whats the distinction between a pass hitting the rim and no reset of the shot clock? but as far as rules go yes I am not the most knowledgeable and if i am wrong here which it seems then so be it -- good job JR.

As far as I can tell, there's a distinction only because there is. ;)

This distinction happens in other aspects as well. When a player shoots an airball, he may retrieve the rebound. Yet, it does not reset the shot clock. Same distinction, same principal, same rules. :)

ok but thats a shot and he can get the airball -- how about in a non shot situation where the ball hits the backboard, rim or nothing? legal?

Generally, if it hits the rim or backboard, it's considered a shot even if it didn't look purposeful. If you think he's trying for a shot, then it's a shot. Only one requirement must be met, not both.

But on a freethrow it has to hit the rim to be considered a shot? Otherwise it is a violation? This rim restriction only applies to a freethrow then? (I am really asking. Not trying to be smart.)

It's a shot whether it hits the rim or not. If it does not hit the rim, the thrower has committed a free throw violation as the rules requires him to throw it so that it hits the rim.

ok so when you KNOW it wasnt a shot attempt and it hits the rim or backboard what do you have? or can a trapped player just launch the ball at the backboard or rim to get around the defense and get the ball unabated? just a question?

It is always a judgment call. And unless you are a mind reader, and personally I'm sureasheck not, you can <b>never</b> be 100% sure that anything thrown off the glass <b>wasn't</b> meant to be a try. It's impossible to <b>KNOW</b> that it's not a shot attempt.

Iow, any doubt, rule it a "try".

in this instance for the dunk putback you KNOW its not a try -- so in this case what do you have if he doesnt dunk but comes back down to earth with the ball?

just conjecture here JR -- I dont disagree that its legal if its a shot attempt -- i was basing what I said earlier on the fact that its NOT a shot attempt.

I remember the pass off the glass then dunking by Traci McGrady a few years back in the all star game. Nothing was called. Yes it is the NBA and nobody cares anyways

To me, there are two criteria to determine whether it's a try or not for purposes of rebounding eligibility.
1. If I judge his intent is to put the ball through the basket, it's a try.
2. If the ball hits the player's backboard or rim, it's a try.
Both don't need to be met; only one.

ok so snaq -- by your #2 - what about an alley oop pass that goes awry and no one touches it but it hits the backboard and teh player that passed it recovers?

that covers #2. you are saying thats a try?

Don't know about snaq but to me, yep it is a try....and if he can alley oop it and go get it, and the defense doesn't stop him, well then good for him and shame on them....the fed even does this to some extent, if the ball is thrown from outside the 3 pt line and it goes in, it is 3pts...they don't want us trying to determine if little Johnny or Mary is throwing a pass or is just that poor fundamentally that we can't tell...

How many different ways can you beat the same horse to death? You clearly want someone to tell you that you should call an illegal dribble. Why is this so important to you? Do you have anything you can use from the rulebook that backs you up to call an illegal dribble for the scenarios you described?

no I see what they are saying all I was trying to figure out if there was a distintion between shot and pass -- why is it so hard to get a yes or no here -- if its a try I know very well what to call and what not to call -- in fact dont even bother answering because it appears that it should be viewed as a shot attempt if it ever hits the backboard or rim.

I disagree with #2. There is nothing in the rules that declare it a try just because it hits the rim or backboard. There are some rules that specify some of the same ramifications of a try (a player may dribble again), points are scored if it goes in, etc....but nothing says it is a try.