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-   -   Signaling Delayed FT Violation (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/31789-signaling-delayed-ft-violation.html)

Rick Durkee Mon Feb 12, 2007 09:18pm

Signaling Delayed FT Violation
 
While the ball is at the disposal of the thrower during a free throw, the trail official sees a lane violation by a player on team B. It seems to me that the official should give the Delay Violation signal with the hand farther from the end line? If that's true, should she/he also continue the wrist flick count with his arm extended? Is there another way to do it?

PYRef Mon Feb 12, 2007 09:26pm

If I'm not mistaken, he 10 second free throw count should not be a visible count. Therefore there would be no wrist flick to interfere with the delayed violation signal.

Jurassic Referee Mon Feb 12, 2007 09:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PYRef
If I'm not mistaken, he 10 second free throw count should not be a visible count.

You're mistaken. The 10-second count is a <b>visible</b> wrist flick. 240(f) on p.41 of the NFHS Officials Manual.

26 Year Gap Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:25pm

Most of the time, the defense violates AFTER the FT release, so you could use the arm furthest from the hoop to signal the delayed violation. If it happens before the release, why couldn't you just stop the count on the release and go right into the delayed violation signal with the same arm?

HawkeyeCubP Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap
Most of the time, the defense violates AFTER the FT release, so you could use the arm furthest from the hoop to signal the delayed violation. If it happens before the release, why couldn't you just stop the count on the release and go right into the delayed violation signal with the same arm?

Because, theoretically, you could still have a violation on the shooter for violating the 10-second rule, in which case you'd penalize both violations. (9-1-Penalties-4-b.)

Snake~eyes Tue Feb 13, 2007 02:11am

Personally, I'd just stop counting, never really thought about it. Anyways I don't really count to begin with...

PYRef Tue Feb 13, 2007 03:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
You're mistaken. The 10-second count is a <b>visible</b> wrist flick. 240(f) on p.41 of the NFHS Officials Manual.

I stand corrected.

Nevadaref Tue Feb 13, 2007 04:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Durkee
While the ball is at the disposal of the thrower during a free throw, the trail official sees a lane violation by a player on team B. It seems to me that the official should give the Delay Violation signal with the hand farther from the end line? If that's true, should she/he also continue the wrist flick count with his arm extended? Is there another way to do it?

I hope that you are asking about 2-man officiating. :D

bob jenkins Tue Feb 13, 2007 09:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Durkee
It seems to me that the official should give the Delay Violation signal with the hand farther from the end line? If that's true, should she/he also continue the wrist flick count with his arm extended? Is there another way to do it?

Count with the hand farther from the end-line. Raise that hand when the FT is in the air and be ready to chop the time. Signal the delayed violation with the other hand.

BillyMac Wed Feb 14, 2007 07:30pm

Nonvisible Count
 
I believe that the only nonvisible count is the three-second count. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Damian Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:13pm

The reason you don't stop
 
If the free throw is successful, you have no violation (assuming A is shooing and B has violated the lane).

jmaellis Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP
Because, theoretically, you could still have a violation on the shooter for violating the 10-second rule, in which case you'd penalize both violations. (9-1-Penalties-4-b.)

Is it true that a lane violation committed by a player on the non-shooting team (9-1-9) isn't a violation until the ball leaves the thrower's hands? If so, if the thrower commits a 10 second violation (9-1-3) that violation causes the ball to become dead so there would not be a dual violation/penalty.

??

HawkeyeCubP Thu Feb 15, 2007 01:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaellis
Is it true that a lane violation committed by a player on the non-shooting team (9-1-9) isn't a violation until the ball leaves the thrower's hands? If so, if the thrower commits a 10 second violation (9-1-3) that violation causes the ball to become dead so there would not be a dual violation/penalty.

??

An opponent of the shooter violating a free-throw provision/requirement/rule is a violation as soon as it occurs, provided the ball is at the shooter's disposal. If the free throw is made, the violation is ignored. - Hence the delayed dead ball signal as soon as the violation occurs - not when the ball is released for the free throw (if the one precedes the other).

Ignats75 Thu Feb 15, 2007 09:27am

I would signal with my hand towards the backcourt. I would silently continue the count with my nearer hand. If the shooter violates, he gets a re-shoot due to the delayed violation.

bob jenkins Thu Feb 15, 2007 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac
I believe that the only nonvisible count is the three-second count. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

True for FED and NCAAM. In NCAAW, the 10-second FT count is also "non visibile", and of course, there is no 10-second bcacckurt count.


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